London again, terrorist...boom?

[Sasq]

Jeers!

Whatever Jean Charles' motivations were I think it's quite safe to rule out fear of gang rape and fear of death squad.

Quite safe indeed.

Schmo 1) get back to work before I your login for the next few hours.
2) He already answered your question, the main point here is, Jean Charles was obviously afraid of something. We know he wasn't a suicide bomber. Paul's story simply shows the possible thoughts going through someones mind, when they are obviously and as should be clear by now, legitimitally scared for their life.

[RichL]

So you would believe bullshit over bullshit?

Man, maybe the human race DOES need a cleanout.

I'd beleive theirs over yours.

And I was trying to be nice.

[badpauly]

I'd beleive theirs over yours.

And I was trying to be nice.

Bullshit is bullshit, plain and simple.

It doesn't matter if it is smelling of flowers and tied in a ribbon, presented on a silver platter with "Fanfare Of The Common Man" playing.

Believing it is half of the issue.

[RichL]

We maybe can rule out rape, but I wouldn't be so sure of the "death-squad".

A number of governments, including those friendly to ours, have police units who are basically free to do what they wish.

Death squads.
In England.
Police Death Squads, no less. In England.
They must be pretty damn good if we've got them, I've lived here all my life and never heard of them. Or perhaps the government is really good at covering it all up. Hang on, theres a black helicopter landing outside...

Mr DeMenezes had been over here for three years and was apparently fluent in English and not an uneducated man.

The fear of police death squads in a busy London street in broad daylight angle isn't working for me. Perhaps you should try the gang rape angle again.

Edit : Or perhaps, he just got stupid at the wrong place and wrong time?

[schmosef]

Death squads.
In England.
Police Death Squads, no less. In England.
They must be pretty damn good if we've got them, I've lived here all my life and never heard of them. Or perhaps the government is really good at covering it all up. Hang on, theres a black helicopter landing outside...

Mr DeMenezes had been over here for three years and was apparently fluent in English and not an uneducated man.

The fear of police death squads in a busy London street in broad daylight angle isn't working for me. Perhaps you should try the gang rape angle again.

Edit : Or perhaps, he just got stupid at the wrong place and wrong time?

Cheers.

ROFLMAO!

[RichL]

Cheers.

ROFLMAO!

No problem.
And I don't get paid at all to write this

[badpauly]

Death squads.
In England.
Police Death Squads, no less. In England.
They must be pretty damn good if we've got them, I've lived here all my life and never heard of them. Or perhaps the government is really good at covering it all up. Hang on, theres a black helicopter landing outside...

Mr DeMenezes had been over here for three years and was apparently fluent in English and not an uneducated man.

The fear of police death squads in a busy London street in broad daylight angle isn't working for me. Perhaps you should try the gang rape angle again.

Edit : Or perhaps, he just got stupid at the wrong place and wrong time?

You seem to have missed this bit. "There are also groups who provide protection to those that pay."

Now I don't know what part of the world you live in, and I don't know if you are a fool or not, but there in fact does exist areas where payment of $$ will result in a normal life, and failure to pay will result in a few accidents occuring.

The world isn't filled with nice people.

Now not being from the UK, I don't know if he was living in a rich or poor area. It was simply a possible reason. A number of reports have in fact mentioned that his previous residance in Brazil was in an area known for "Death Squads" and "protection rackets" so fear of that cannot be ruled out.

You may live in a nice, secure, sanitized part of the world, but others do not. And some of those locations are quite close.

[schmosef]

badpauly,

Despite the inauspicious circumstances of you arrival, I wish to take this opportunity to welcome you to the MURC.

You’ll find that we usually manage to maintain an air of civility even when arguing the basest of issues.

I look forward to discussing this with you further at a more opportune time.

PS, I would suggest you avail yourself the ability to review some of your previous posts so as to avoid further blatant hypocrisy. For example, are news reports to be trusted or not? Is "bullshit" not indeed... "bullshit"?

[Wombat]

Death squads.
In England.
Police Death Squads, no less. In England.
They must be pretty damn good if we've got them, I've lived here all my life and never heard of them.

So group of unarmed, unidentified cops, operating on a do-not-apprehend, shoot-to-kill--target-the-head order of a TOTAL innocent doesn't qualify as a death squad?

And if your Anti-Terrorism Law includes the same insane provisions as our Patriot Act, you never WILL hear about them. Under Patriot, people aren't allowed to even talk about investigations that are ongoing. Librarians aren't even allowed to mention what they've done, or why they've done it, even after the investigation is over.

[badpauly]

PS, I would suggest you avail yourself the ability to review some of your previous posts so as to avoid further blatant hypocrisy. For example, are news reports to be trusted or not? Is "bullshit" not indeed... "bullshit"?

The majority of news reports should always be questioned. Especially those in the first 24-hours.

The bigger the story, the more it needs to be questioned.

Without going into details (Sasq can vouch for this) I've been both in front of the news as well as reporting it. I know how a simple comment can be blown out into a mostly bullshit headline, while the facts are ignored.

Most of what you read as "news" is in fact a story based, sometimes vaguely, on fact. It takes a lot of reading to find out the actual news. Sometimes just reading won't tell you the whole story anyway.

I suggest you avail yourself the ability to say "yeah, I don't know the truth, and I did misunderstand what you tried to say".

Thanks for the welcome.

This little Aussie may go to bed soon.

[Gurm]

Good GOD, people.

We're debating a tragedy that occured because the youth was terminally stupid.

How hard is it to understand - DO NOT RUN FROM ARMED POLICEMEN?

It's like in Chris Rock's "how not to get your ass kicked by the police" video. There are several simple rules to follow when dealing with the police:

1. Don't run from police.
2. Don't yell/swear/argue with/at police.

etc. etc.

So what I'm saying is that although badpauly's intention was to make us think "gee maybe the police are trigger-happy ****oles" (I reject his assertion that it was simply to provide alternatives, and suggest instead that it was anti-police, anti-media, and anti-government in motivation), this case is quite simple:

The boy was stupid, ran from the cops who were waving guns and yelling "stop, police!" and died. Sad? Yes. Preventable? Sure, he could have STOPPED RUNNING.

----------------------

EDIT: Schmo pointed something out to me, so... EDIT!

DEATH SQUADS? ARE YOU HIGH ON CRACK? OR HAS YOUR BIZARRE LIBERAL TAKE ON THINGS UTTERLY ADDLED YOUR BRAIN?

Death squads... in London?

POLICE DEATH SQUADS... IN LONDON?

Holy shit! Alert the mainstream media. That'd be bigger news than the bombings themselves. If there were death squads in a major city in the UK, USA, France, etc. the world would be UP IN ARMS. The people wouldn't rest until the government had dealt with it.

Or maybe, just maybe... there aren't any death squads. Dumbass.

[schmosef]

Occam's Razor

[GNEP]

Now not being from the UK, I don't know if he was living in a rich or poor area. It was simply a possible reason.

Not wanting to get into the "can you understand the concept of an analogy" argument, I can add local knowledge (I live 5 mins walk from Stockwel Tube, with Oval tube 5 mins in the other direction, so all of this has been pretty damn local for me...). Tulse Hill, Brixton (midway between) and Stockwell are not the nicest areas of London, but it's not really gangland here. Clapton in Hackney (the other side) I used to live in and we'd have regular gang-related shootings, but not so around here. However given this guy's background, I can see where a fear of death-squads could conceivably come from. Or just a plain old beating up, which you'd also run from. What is clear to me is that there is no evidence I've heard to date that he actually knew they were police. Muggings do occur regularly in this part of town. There are many logical reasons why he ran. And believe it or not, the fact there had been bombings the day before was not dominating the thought processes of every single person living and working in London.

[Gurm]

Y'know, I've had some more time to think about it, and I'll be a little softer here.

--------------------------------

If your primary intention, whenever political and/or current events discussions come up, is to immediately claim or try to get people to consider that it might be "corruption/malfeasance/evil" on the part of:

- The Police
- Government
- "The Man"
- Corporations

Then maybe you have a larger problem with authority. I know people like this. My pal Garrett is a great guy. Give you the shirt off his back. Funny, smart, a great dad. Made the best of the crap that life handed him. But EVERYTHING is "Bush's Evil Master Plan" or "A Government Coverup" or some garbage like that. EVERYTHING.

And that's exactly the logic that you've used here, BP.

Is it ok to try to get people to think that maybe the MSM isn't telling everyone the truth? Hell yeah - I've been saying for YEARS that the BBC isn't "fair and unbiased". Nobody listens, but I've been saying it anyway.

But it's NOT ok to make up wild stories to attempt to explain away what was a tragic but preventable mistake.

Stupid kids are stupid kids around the world. In EVERY country, if the police pull their guns and yell "stop", and you go "FVCK YOU, PIGS!" and take off running, you can EXPECT to be either beaten down or shot, depending on the climate.

So here you are, hours after the SECOND Islamic-motivated bombing in London, dressed strangely, carrying a large sack, and RUNNING FROM THE DAMN COPS. What do you EXPECT will happen?

Not everything is a government conspiracy. There are no "death squads". In broad daylight, gangrapes are rare if not unheard-of. Certainly, men stalking you for blocks and blocks, across a bus ride and into a train station... they're not death squads. They MIGHT be gangsters, but unless you have reason to fear the mob... why were you running?

Do I feel bad for this kid and his family? Sure. But he was STUPID. End of story.

Don't try to spin EVERYTHING into a government conspiracy/coverup. It's rabid liberalism and it gets you nowhere except mocked when (in the USA) 51% of the nation goes ahead and votes Republican ANYWAY.

[Gurm]

And believe it or not, the fact there had been bombings the day before was not dominating the thought processes of every single person living and working in London.

The Muslims? Yeah it was.

Groups affected? Yep. People who ride the subway to work daily, and the race responsible for the attack? They WERE thinking about it.