2008 Hillary -vs- Dick Cheney?

[cjolley]

...
I still want McCain to run.. probably the only decently honest guy in Washington.

Chuck & Chuck vote for the same guy for pres.
The universe would explode.

McCain could never get through the Republican primary process though...

[Jessterw]

Chuck & Chuck vote for the same guy for pres.
The universe would explode.

McCain could never get through the Republican primary process though...

As much as I like the guy, I think if anything or anyone did the exploding it would be McCain himself.

As far as Rice goes, I think she'd be a far better choice than Hilary, and I don't even much care for her.

[KvHagedorn]

Chuck & Chuck vote for the same guy for pres.
The universe would explode.

McCain could never get through the Republican primary process though...

True.. no megacorp would use their bribery budget to back an honest man in either party, so the mindless lemmings that are "the majority" here would not even have a chance to vote for him.

[Dr Mordrid]

1. Either McCain or Juliani could win the Republican primaries since they are mostly open; meaning Republicans and independents can vote in them. In some states even Democrats can vote in Republican primaries.

This mitigates the effect of their far right wing in many States, allowing centerist candidates like them to win Repulican presidential nominations.

2. This is not the case with the Democrats who mostly run closed primaries or caucuses. This exaggerates the influence of the far lefties in their nominating process and has since the early 70's when McGovern stacked their nominatiing process in that direction.

It was this move that alienated the centerist and conservative Democrats into moving into the independent or Republican ranks, giving birth to the "Reagan Democrats" who tossed Carter out on his arse in 1980 and ignited the "Republican Revolution" of the 80's and 90's.

The fallout of McGoverns move is that now both houses of Congress, most State legislatures, most State governorships, most high State officers (Secretaries of State, Atty. Generals etc.), and the Presidency are now controlled by Republicans.

3. Because of the skewed Dem system Hillary could well win the Democratic nomination but there is a rub: her extremely high poll negatives, approaching 45% nationally. Even many Democrats cannot stand her. Most of her national popularity comes from leftover "Clintonista's" and the far left wingers, which is not enough to win a general election given that most electoral and popular votes now reside in Republican states by a rapidly increasing margin.

4. McCain recently reactivated his PAC (Political Action Committee), a necessary step in starting a presidential campaign.

IMO if either McCain or Juliani win the nomination and tap either the runner up or Condi Rice for VP the contest is over.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

You can't let go once you grab the tiger by the tail.

1. Either McCain or Juliani could win the Republican primaries since they are mostly open; meaning Republicans and independents can vote in them. In some states even Democrats can vote in Republican primaries.

This mitigates the effect of their far right wing in many States, allowing centerist candidates like them to win Repulican presidential nominations.

For example? Or are you talking about 15 or 20 years ago?

2. This is not the case with the Democrats who mostly run closed primaries or caucuses. This exaggerates the influence of the far lefties in their nominating process and has since the early 70's when McGovern stacked their nominatiing process in that direction.

It was this move that alienated the centerist and conservative Democrats into moving into the independent or Republican ranks, giving birth to the "Reagan Democrats" who tossed Carter out on his arse in 1980 and ignited the "Republican Revolution" of the 80's and 90's.

I guess Nixon's "Southern Strategy" (you know, the one where the Repubs went after the southern racist vote) had nothing to do with it.

The fallout of McGoverns move is that now both houses of Congress, most State legislatures, most State governorships, most high State officers (Secretaries of State, Atty. Generals etc.), and the Presidency are now controlled by Republicans.

And look at the GREAT job they are doing!

3. Because of the skewed Dem system Hillary could well win the Democratic nomination but there is a rub: her extremely high poll negatives, approaching 45% nationally. Even many Democrats cannot stand her. Most of her national popularity comes from leftover "Clintonista's" and the far left wingers, which is not enough to win a general election given that most electoral and popular votes now reside in Republican states by a rapidly increasing margin.

So far she has only had her own voice heard in NY where she has extremely high positives. See This

4. McCain recently reactivated his PAC (Political Action Committee), a necessary step in starting a presidential campaign.

IMO if either McCain or Juliani win the nomination and tap either the runner up or Condi Rice for VP the contest is over.

McCain yes, Juliani maybe, but your dream of a pure pro-choice Republican ticket is a fantasy. And even if it came to that it might not win because the base would desert.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

You're missing the point... the country will NOT elect a woman to the presidency. Not 20 years ago and not now. I'm not being sexist or misogynistic in this, just realistic. It won't happen, and it'd make little sense to make a bid KNOWING that it'll never happen.

You really think that the same 51% of the country that re-elected Dubya... will vote for a liberal woman? OMFGROFLMAOkekekekekekekekekekekekekekekeke!!!!!11 1one

[cjolley]

You're missing the point... the country will NOT elect a woman to the presidency. Not 20 years ago and not now.
...

If the top of the tickets is Clinton & Rice they will.

Of course, I started this thread, and YOU are missing the point.
Which is:
No less than Bob Woodward thinks that these guys are so self confident that they might put up Dick Cheney as the presidential candidate.
That would strike me as amazing.

He is socialy too liberal to be enthusiastically supported by the base, but so reviled by everyone else that I can't even conceive of it even being considered by Rove*, who will of course be running things.

The part about Hillary running doesn't seem new or odd to me at all.
I thought everyone considered her making at least a stab at it a forgone conclusion.


*PS Doc: Do you think there is any chance that McCain would work with Rove, or that Rove would be left completely out of the process of the Republican side of the next presidential election.
Personaly, I can't imagine someone with the integrity of McCain even speaking to the Rove of the South Carolina Pimary.

[Dr Mordrid]

For example? Or are you talking about 15 or 20 years ago?

Example: Bush himself. He's quite middle of the road, which is why he won the popular vote by 4 million, a large margin historically.

I guess Nixon's "Southern Strategy" (you know, the one where the Repubs went after the southern racist vote) had nothing to do with it.

Oh yeah....the old "Nixon was a racist crap". Do some updated reading starting with this book;

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/KOTNIX.html

Summary:

Between 1969 and 1974, Nixon – who believed that blacks had gotten a raw deal in America and wanted to extend a helping hand:

* raised the civil rights enforcement budget 800 percent;

* doubled the budget for black colleges;

* appointed more blacks to federal posts and high positions than any president, including LBJ;

* adopted the Philadelphia Plan mandating quotas for blacks in unions, and for black scholars in colleges and universities;

* invented "Black Capitalism" (the Office of Minority Business Enterprise), raised U.S. purchases from black businesses from $9 million to $153 million, increased small business loans to minorities 1,000 percent, increased U.S. deposits in minority-owned banks 4,000 percent;

* raised the share of Southern schools that were desegregated from 10 percent to 70 percent.

Not bad for a "racist"

And look at the GREAT job they are doing!

Yes, they are doing a great job. Unemployment is at or below 5% nationwide (vs. Europes 10% or much higher), the economy is creating over 250,000 jobs/month, most states are now climbing out of their post 9/11 budget crises and into surplus status, the so-called record US budget deficits are dropping like a stone (more activity = more tax revenues = lower deficits) etc. etc.

The only state that seems to be out of this loop is here in Michigan, mainly because our DEMOCRAT governaor is stopping up the works with some massively stupid policies. That's OK, she'll be gone after the next election.

So far she has only had her own voice heard in NY where she has extremely high positives.

So it's big news that a Dem. senator from NY is leading in NY polls? Uh-huh. New York would vote for Donald Duck if he ran as a Democrat. More interesting is the recent Gallup poll that shows that either Juliani or McCain would beat her nationally because of her high negatives.

McCain yes, Juliani maybe, but your dream of a pure pro-choice Republican ticket is a fantasy. And even if it came to that it might not win because the base would desert.

Republicans are generally pragmatists, meaning that if voting for a pro-choice Republican keeps an even more liberal Democrat out of office it's a fair tradeoff. At least they understand that this is a policy that will only be changed by the courts and not by presidential fiat.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

1,
Bush the moderate?
He did run as a moderate.
But that is not how he has governed, and it shows in his poll numbers.

2,
Doc, I never said, and don't believe, that Nixon was a racist personaly.
I said and do believe that the republican party courts the southern racist vote.
And that that was a deliberate strategy started by Nixon.
The Democrats had this vote and threw it away. And good riddance no matter the cost.
You can't sleep with Satan and not get dirty.

3,
Not just Michigan, Oklahoma too.
In fact, except for the very rich incomes are not rising.
Unemployment statistics are a joke and everyone knows it.
Those 250,000 jobs represent the average rate for the Clinton years (2.9m/year).

4,
Most people around the nation have only heard about her through the Republican Noise Machine
Americans are fair, and they will listen to her directly if she runs.
Which I hope she doesn't. (too much of a distraction from the Clintonoiacs))
But I don't know that much about her politics either (though she is pretty popular in congress even among (gasp) Republicans)
So I'd give her a listen too.

5,
They are pragmatic, and they need their base to win.
And the base is not pragmatic, they are radical.
Look at the way they are deserting John Roberts for a tiny amount of probono work on a case involving gays.


PS(again): Do you think there is any chance that McCain would work with Rove, or that Rove would be left completely out of the process of the Republican side of the next presidential election.
Personaly, I can't imagine someone with the integrity of McCain even speaking to the Rove of the South Carolina Pimary.

[KvHagedorn]

The "they" is Ann Coulter, and she's doing it because people like Roberts who are total blank slates have "never" turned out to be a good choice for conservatives. She makes a good point. Or maybe she's just pissed that he's a white male.. who knows? Bush shoulda renominated Bork.. just to watch Biden and Kennedy twist in the wind when they can't do anything about it.

[The PIT]

Only one winner there.

[Gurm]

Bush did run as a moderate. But he has governed, in both of his two terms, as a right-wing nutbag.

Everyone seems to think that Hillary making a run for it is a foregone conclusion, except that nobody has asked the hard question yet - will America vote for a liberal woman? (Hint: The answer is either no, no, or HELL NO. Your choice, really!)

[rylan]

Bush did run as a moderate. But he has governed, in both of his two terms, as a right-wing nutbag.

I dunno, he sure spends money like a liberal nutbag. Take a look at that highway bill he just signed. Talk about pork.. OINK OINK!

[KvHagedorn]

The fact that George W. Bush is president now is a measure of how utterly repulsive most Americans find the leftie nutbags that have the Democratic party by the balls. We would rather have someone else, but if GWB can beat those guys, imagine what someone else.. even a real conservative with some class and elocution could do. Bill Clinton absolutely ruined this country with free trade agreements. Doomed it utterly. But GWB backed those agreements, so if he'd been there it would have been him wielding the knife.

[Gurm]

Yeah GWB is an odd duck. I heard a talk radio show host describe himself as "politically conservative, morally liberal". I think GWB is the opposite - "politically liberally, morally conservative".