Interesting read

[dZeus]

A War to Be Proud Of

Read it all. (if you dare)

DOES THE PRESIDENT deserve the benefit of the reserve of fortitude that I just mentioned? Only just, if at all. We need not argue about the failures and the mistakes and even the crimes, because these in some ways argue themselves. But a positive accounting could be offered without braggartry, and would include:

ok let's see what's in here:

(1) The overthrow of Talibanism and Baathism, and the exposure of many highly suggestive links between the two elements of this Hitler-Stalin pact. Abu Musab al Zarqawi, who moved from Afghanistan to Iraq before the coalition intervention, has even gone to the trouble of naming his organization al Qaeda in Mesopotamia.

haven't heard anything of these links hitting the media here, other than overzealous FOX News reports. For now I'll take 'highly suggestive' literally untill I can read about this from credible sources.
As for removing Taliban and Baathism from power: great. But it's only as good as the democracy replacing it. We'll have to wait and see for that.

(2) The subsequent capitulation of Qaddafi's Libya in point of weapons of mass destruction--a capitulation that was offered not to Kofi Annan or the E.U. but to Blair and Bush.

good news indeed. However, there are many leads that Qaddafi 'surrendered' its WMD programme for economic reasons (lifting of sanctions, etc). They've been leaning that direction for some time already (think about the Lockerbie process).

(3) The consequent unmasking of the A.Q. Khan network for the illicit transfer of nuclear technology to Libya, Iran, and North Korea.

First time I ever heard Khan being linked to AQ. Not to mention that his 'unmasking' happened WAY TOO LATE. Appearantly Khan was suspected of stealing/trading Nucleair secrets back in the 80ies but never imprisoned because US secret services wanted to 'keep an eye on him'. Great news that was, with Pakistan now being a nucleair power run by a dictator and lots of taliban loonatics living there as well, and nucleair weapons tech in the hands of North Korea and Iran.

(4) The agreement by the United Nations that its own reform is necessary and overdue, and the unmasking of a quasi-criminal network within its elite.

yup good things. Who's responsible for them happening though?

(5) The craven admission by President Chirac and Chancellor Schröder, when confronted with irrefutable evidence of cheating and concealment, respecting solemn treaties, on the part of Iran, that not even this will alter their commitment to neutralism. (One had already suspected as much in the Iraqi case.)

not much reports of that in the media here, so see point 1 (in short: I can't comment on them without reading more).

(6) The ability to certify Iraq as actually disarmed, rather than accept the word of a psychopathic autocrat.

disarmed? disarm what? If anything, there are more weapons in Iraq than prior to the intervention. But now in the hands of AQ soldiers, sunni insurgents and several shia militia (SCIRI and Al Sadr).

(7) The immense gains made by the largest stateless minority in the region--the Kurds--and the spread of this example to other states.

Turkey isn't too keen on what's going on. Might blow into a full-scale conflict..

(8) The related encouragement of democratic and civil society movements in Egypt, Syria, and most notably Lebanon, which has regained a version of its autonomy.

major thumbs up

(9) The violent and ignominious death of thousands of bin Ladenist infiltrators into Iraq and Afghanistan, and the real prospect of greatly enlarging this number.

great, but will be considered as 'good' in my book when the amount of infiltrators/insurgents is deminished because there are less people joining than being killed.

(10) The training and hardening of many thousands of American servicemen and women in a battle against the forces of nihilism and absolutism, which training and hardening will surely be of great use in future combat.

good training for future conflicts, however more psychological and physical traumas as well.

Overall I wouldn't say without braggartry but with braggart.

[cjolley]

It's hard for me to see how the formation of Iran Jr. is going to improve the security of the US over a contained Sadam.

Time will tell I guess.

[DukeP]

Iran is 4 times the size of Iraq in area and 2 1/2 times as populous. It is also extremely mountainous. An absolute military nightmare. The Russians in Afghanistan and the Germans in Yugoslavia never got a handle on the guerilla warfare emanating from the mountains. The only way the US was able to root out the Japanese in caves during WW2 was that they were in a confined area and had no means of supply. Even then, if the Americans had not been hell-bent on utterly exterminating the enemy, with the entire economy of the US at their backs and the willingness to take appalling casualties themselves, they would have been bogged down indefinitely.

Im actually not certain that the US, even the US of old, could have cleared the Japaneze.

The A bomb worked tho - but that tactic will NEVER work against a threat that doesnt give a damn about civilian casulties.

~~DukeP~~