EU plans to end US Internet control

[Claymonkey]

Isn't there some saying about repeating a particular sort of statement over and over again in hopes of getting people to believe it?

seriously... both sides have enough cannon fodder without having to make up stuff and twist what was said. Gore never said he invented it. This is like when Nixon said the Great Wall of China "was a really great wall made by a great people" and it was cut down to the point of making him sound like an idiot.

[Jessterw]

I'd say the ego is just a big on either side of the pond. Comments like these just serve to prove it. It's like a father and son comparing their members.

[Gurm]

Isn't there some saying about repeating a particular sort of statement over and over again in hopes of getting people to believe it?

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

That's what Al Gore said. I'm sure he MEANT something else, but he SAID that he created the Internet. Y'know... 30 years too late.

[cjolley]

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

That's what Al Gore said. I'm sure he MEANT something else, but he SAID that he created the Internet. Y'know... 30 years too late.

Taken in context it is plain that he was talking about legislative initiatives:

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

To say that he was claiming that he physically invented the internet, which is what the charge is, is akin to saying that Bush threatened to throw food at the voters when he made that gaff about "putting food on their families".

The problem is not that people laugh at a funny verbal mistake, it's that people who claim that he MEANT to say that he physically invented the internet are mistaken. And the computer literate ones who do it are LYING.

[Gurm]

Taken in context it is plain that he was talking about legislative initiatives:



To say that he was claiming that he physically invented the internet, which is what the charge is, is akin to saying that Bush threatened to throw food at the voters when he made that gaff about "putting food on their families".

The problem is not that people laugh at a funny verbal mistake, it's that people who claim that he MEANT to say that he physically invented the internet are mistaken. And the computer literate ones who do it are LYING.

No. I never claimed that he claimed to INVENT the Internet. I said that he claims to have "created" the Internet. And he has. I know what he meant, it's still a ridiculous lying weasel-faced politician claim, and it's still retarded.

You can say all you want that in context it works, but I can say stuff in context too:

"During my time with the Sardaukar, I was instrumental in creating the techniques used to render enemies helpless at long range using focused sonic discharges."

Doesn't make it true.

[Sasq]

Just my 2 yen.
I agree the US should not be the only one in control.

I also agree the UN should not have a damn say in it either.

I would just prefer to see an International organization made up of both governments and industry players in charge.

Simple reason for having root servers in multiple countries, if the lines to the US are cut, the rest of us still get to use the net.

[Gurm]

Doesn't matter. I was instrumental in creating the Internet, and I say that we should let Iceland regulate it. QED.

[Jessterw]

I'm reminded of another saying that goes something like, beating a dead horse.

[Dr Mordrid]

Main concern from this side of the pond is freedom of speech.

Here in the US we have a tradition of this that's pretty strong. Most anything goes save for "fire in the theater" type things. In other locales this isn't the case. Put control of the 'net in other hands and it could change the 'net as we know it.

With countries like Cuba, China etc. already blocking sites in their nations because they may criticize their governments the fear is that this kind of censorship could be institutionalized if cointrol shifted ot an international organization.

How this kind of perversion can occur can easily be seen by looking at the UN Commission on Human Rights. What at one time was at least a semi-serious organization is now a sad joke.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

Just to take one more whack at that horse.

A Reference:

Let's revisit what Al Gore said, and what Wired said about that. Wired opines at length that the ARPANET was invented while Gore was in virtual knee-breeches, and proceeds to mention networks that preceded the Internet boom of the 1990s, such as UUCP. This appears to be some sort of confusion about the difference between the ARPANET and other networks and the Internet, which steers wide of the mark. Not only Wired has made this mistake; almost all of the public outcry against Gore's statement that I've seen has been based on misinterpretations of what the man said and of how the Internet actually evolved.

Or how about Snopes?

Internet of Lies
Claim: Vice-President Al Gore claimed that he "invented" the Internet.

Status: False.

Origins: Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part): During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.
Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the technology that we now know as the Internet. To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the "invention" of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. Gore never used the word "invent," and the words "create" and "invent" have distinctly different meanings — the former is used in the sense of "to bring about" or "to bring into existence" while the latter is generally used to signify the first instance of someone's thinking up or implementing an idea. (To those who say the words "create" and "invent" mean exactly the same thing, we have to ask why, then, the media overwhelmingly and consistently cited Gore as having claimed he "invented" the Internet, even though he never used that word, and transcripts of what he actually said were readily available.)

If President Eisenhower had said in the mid-1960s that he, while President, "created" the Interstate Highway System, we would not have seen dozens and dozens of editorials lampooning him for claiming he "invented" the concept of highways or implying that he personally went out and dug ditches across the country to help build the roadway. Everyone would have understood that Ike meant he was a driving force behind the legislation that created the highway system, and this was the very same concept Al Gore was expressing about himself with his Internet statement.

Whether Gore's statement that he "took the initiative in creating the Internet" is justified is a subject of debate. Any statement about the "creation" or "beginning" of the Internet is difficult to evaluate, because the Internet is not a homogenous entity (it's a collection of computers, networks, protocols, standards, and application programs), nor did it all spring into being at once (the components that comprise the Internet were developed in various places at different times and are continuously being modified, improved, and expanded). Despite a spirited defense of Gore's claim by Vint Cerf (often referred to as the "father of the Internet") in which he stated "that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it," many of the components of today's Internet came into being well before Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977.

It is true, though, that Gore was popularizing the term "information superhighway" in the early 1990s (although he did not, as is often claimed by others, coin the phrase himself) when few people outside academia or the computer/defense industries had heard of the Internet, and he sponsored the 1988 National High-Performance Computer Act (which established a national computing plan and helped link universities and libraries via a shared network) and cosponsored the Information Infrastructure and Technology Act of 1992 (which opened the Internet to commercial traffic).

In May 2005, the organizers of the Webby Awards for online achievements honored Al Gore with a lifetime achievement award for three decades of contributions to the Internet. "He is indeed due some thanks and consideration for his early contributions," said Vint Cerf.

Last updated: 5 May 2005

Or, how about we take the word of Vint Cerf who actually DID invent the internet:

VP Gore was the first or surely among the first of the members of Congress to become a strong supporter of advanced networking while he served as Senator. As far back as 1986, he was holding hearings on this subject (supercomputing, fiber networks...) and asking about their promise and what could be done to realize them. Bob Kahn, with whom I worked to develop the Internet design in 1973, participated in several hearings held by then-Senator Gore and I recall that Bob introduced the term ``information infrastructure'' in one hearing in 1986. It was clear that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it.

As Senator, VP Gore was highly supportive of the research community's efforts to explore new networking capabilities and to extend access to supercomputers by way of NSFNET and its successors, the High Performance Computing and Communication program (which included the National Research and Education Network initiative), and as Vice President, he has been very responsive to recommendations made, for example, by the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee that endorsed additional research funding for next generation fundamental research in software and related topics. If you look at the last 30-35 years of network development, you'll find many people who have made major contributions without which the Internet would not be the vibrant, growing and exciting thing it is today. The creation of a new information infrastructure requires the willing efforts of thousands if not millions of participants and we've seen leadership from many quarters, all of it needed, to move the Internet towards increased availability and utility around the world.

While it is not accurate to say that VP Gore invented Internet, he has played a powerful role in policy terms that has supported its continued growth and application, for which we should be thankful.

We're fortunate to have senior level members of Congress and the Administration who embrace new technology and have the vision to see how it can be put to work for national and global benefit.

QED indeed.

[cjolley]

Main concern from this side of the pond is freedom of speech.
...

Agreed.
It sure is mine, and most if not all computer literate people over here.

We might quibble about who others on this side of the pond that might or might not be the main concern of though.

[Nowhere]

Uhmm...OK, but you don't even have "freedom of showing a nipple"

The only restrictions I could imagine is silencing voices of people who DREAM about taking away free speach from others...

[Jessterw]

Now we're on about freedom to show body parts? Sigh.

"But hey son, I can show my wang in public..."

[Nowhere]

Oh, I see the mentality...
"hate speech is OK, nudity is a sin for which you should be sent to hell"

[Gurm]

Ok, now I have a split topic. LOL!

---------------

1. Al Gore:

While I concur that those who claim that Gore claimed to "invent" the Internet are being disingenuous... all of the apologists, SNOPES INCLUDED, are being equally disingenuous in the other direction. Let's say that someone had pushed for the use of disinfectants before operations in hospitals. Clearly soap has been around for centuries, but it wasn't until recently that the extent of infection was realized (by "recently" I mean of course the past 125 years or so).

If this person claimed to have "created soap", or been instrumental in "creating soap"... well it hardly MATTERS that they pushed for the widespread use of soap before operations in hospitals around the world. It's a bullshit claim. Is it semantics? Sure. But let's call a spade a spade - Al Gore is an opportunistic bastard. This is the same guy, by the way, who authored a report on governmental waste - then printed out THOUSANDS of copies of this THOUSAND page document... only a handful of which were ever read. The rest were... shredded. And yet he failed to see the irony of this, continuing to herald himself as a champion of waste reduction.

It's not that his claim of "being instrumental in the creation of the Internet of today" (which would have been a better way of putting it, to be sure) is so bogus. It's that it was PURPOSELY disingenuous. (Gotta LOVE that word, eh?)

---------------------------------

2. Freedom of Speech:

If you think that the Internet would, in the hands of the EU or UN, remain the bastion of free speech that it is today... then you are seriously deluded.

Let's take some recent examples. Australians claim to have free speech, but Dan can attest that people can be SUED for what they write on PERSONAL WEB PAGES in Australia. And I'm not talking about slander or libel. I'm talking about PERSONAL OPINIONS. In Australia, writing that you think that homosexuality is a sin (the belief, according to polls, of 55% of US Citizens)... your web pages can be taken down and you can be sued. So clearly we can't let THEM control the Internet.

The French don't allow protected religious speech if the religion isn't popular enough. Scientology is a weird cult, but their web pages shouldn't be censored. Let France run the Internet, and they will be!

There is, clearly, no need for me to even start in on China. My point is simply that the rest of the world, sadly, can't really be trusted to protect what the USA considers people's fundamental rights.

---------------------------

3. Nipples:

While I don't condone the FCC's tactics, they ARE reflecting public opinion. On broadcast TV, which is federally regulated and free in the air, you are limited in what you can say, do, and show. Wanna see nipples? Pay the extra $2 a month for more than basic cable.

Now, the day that the FCC tries to censor cable (and believe me, there are those that want them to - and the legislation has already been proposed), watch for more of a public outcry. But frankly I don't care if "E.R." can't show the bare breasts of patients getting open heart surgery. If I want to see breasts, I know where to find them.