If there are no baggetts, eat sh*t.

[TransformX]

Apples and oranges are both fruits, both grow on trees, both eaten by humans etc. You'll find more common points than differences.
The same words France and some other European nations used to describe Israel's treatment with the Arabs can be used to describe the French doing in their colonies and with the immigrants that came from their former colonies. Give it some thought.

[Umfriend]

OK. ...thinking...result: WRONG!

Again, anyone born in France will have, by LAW, the same rights. France, to my knowledge, simply does not have territories comparable to what Israel has with the west-bank (and to some extent still Gaza). To my knowledge, most of the criticism from France, some french, many Eurotwits and whatnot relate to the territitoris occupied by Israel. That is what the "proclamations against Israel" is about. Out of chagrin, the current bad fortune of france is used to discredit any critique (as in "proclamations against Israel") from France or some french politicians of Israel.

Big boys y'all. Now I've wasted enough time on this. I don't know how to make this any clearer. I think you know pretty well what I mean. I do not know why you keeping going round on this. I don't care. Bye.

[TransformX]

French Imperialism...

http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/

Today, the remnants of France's control in lands beyond her border consist primarily of islands in the Atlantic and Pacific, as well as the former penal colony at Guiana (now used for France's space program). Collectively, these outer fringes of French civilization and government are referred to as "DOM-TOM" — for domaines d'outre-mer and territoires d'outre-mer. Several of these are considered to be official départements of France (Guadeloupe, Guiana, Martinique, and Réunion). In addition — alongside numerous other countries — France has "staked out" small sections of the Antarctic continent and its islands, for scientific research.

[Umfriend]

whatever....

[SpiralDragon]

i am just reading through this thread when i come across this

"Um-el-Fahem."

ironicly it means (translated loosly) mother of understanding

[TransformX]

Then I miswrote in English, it's mother of coal.

[SpiralDragon]

aye... tricky transliterations..... lol... Fahhem..... the first was however intended to make my point.... i hope you get it too

[schmosef]

My interpretation of the original article was that it was satire, not legitimate criticism.

The polemic against France was obviously over the top and inappropriate as it was based on a very narrow and heavily biased interpretation of facts and events.

As are similar polemic criticisms against Israel.

Although the similarity of events and actions being criticised in these cases is up for debate (the core similarity being the negative treatment of Muslims), the article is intended to speak more about the legitimacy of the extreme nature of the criticism and the recommended retribution (boycotts, etc.).

Lastly, Muslims, in any Western country, have it better than non-Muslims in any Muslim state.

Not to say that two wrongs make a "right", but I guarantee to you that nowhere in the Islamic world is the plight of the Dhimmi being debated with as much passion and integrity as we attempt for Muslims.

[Umfriend]

I will not deny that biased, uninformed, ridiculous criticisms against Israel exist. But again, to equate the underlying issue that is being criticised is inappropriate and the attempt to discredit any critique therefore is as well. (Today I gave my youngest, just 4 and a half years old, a soft hit on the hand as he was trying to grab something that was not his to grab. I may never criticise anyone ever egain I guess). Given what I have written in this thread, can we agree on that?

And yes, "we" in the west are better than "they"in the east. What's the relevance of that in this thread? Or should I ask some inuit walking around in bogota?

[SpiralDragon]

its tragic really .. how the places where civilisation started things are so far behind the rest of the world.....

[Umfriend]

civilisation started in Alabama?????

[schmosef]

I think that you missed what I was saying.

The point was not that the underlying circumstances are similar.

The point is that the reactions are similar. And in both cases the reactions are based on a "narrow and biased interpretation of events".

I think that the point of the article, and it really was for internal consumption, was to further embolden those who defend Israel, but providing them with a useful example of how inappropriate it can be to jump to such conclusions.

Really, the specific circumstances leading to those negative conclusions are almost irrelevant except to say that they involve one county's treatement of a particular population group.

[SpiralDragon]

civilisation started in Alabama?????

who said anything about alabama?!?!?! i was refering to africa, ME and asia

[Umfriend]

Whatever. It speaks of "The above letter is factually correct [...] over much less wrongs than their own countries commited. [...] and now those new developments might put a mirror before the Europeans face [...]". If that is not discrediting critique of Israel based on equating, than I don't know what is.

it really was for internal consumption

He, _I_ did not post this here.

Enough loudmouth criticasters of Israel have made themselves ridicoulous in my view. I'd not like it if defenders of it did likewise. Not that I matter, but sometimes I indulge myself and pretend.

Spiral: think Neil Young (unless I completely misunderstand the song)

[schmosef]

Once again, I don't think it's about equating the circumstances (that just leaves the door open for a$$hats who don't know the circumstances) I think it's about equating the reactions. How a boycott against France would be inappropriate based on the small amount of info provided. And thus maybe there's not enough info to call for a boycott of Israel. That's the mirror. Not the circumstances. I don't think anyone's trying to play the moral equivalence card. That's a stupid tactic that Israel is always having to counter.