This pisses me off

[KRSESQ]

My father had his own recipe for a non-lethal short range round: a mixed load of #9 bird shot (small pellets), rock salt and a few triangular window glazing nails.

NON-lethal? Ouch, indeed! Those window glazing nails would make good flechettes. But don't they do a number on the rifling?

Kevin

edit Forgot, shotguns aren't usually rifled. Even so...

[ALBPM]

I take it then that D.C. and Chicago are paragons of handgun-free crime?

You Bet..... All Law abiding citizens of those cities are unarmed and good victims (Sheeple)

[ALBPM]

SF voted to ban all guns in homes and businesses. On top of that, you are required to turn in your guns by April 1st. This is complete and utter bullshit.

Now, I tend to be more on the left side but this is crap! Like this is going to stop criminals It'll just give the criminals a bigger advantadge. It will also turn some folks, who are otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals because I guarantee you their will be some who will now buy guns illegaly.

Thankfully the NRA has already sued the crap out of this bullshit measure, and rightfully so.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...G9RFKD1C82.DTL

I used to think of myself as a Liberal too. Lately I don't even want to be associated with these whiney excusses of Americans. I don't quite fit the Right Wing, Bible thumping side either. So, I guess that makes me a conservative that firmly believes in the right to have the means to defend myself.

[DGhost]

There are times I agree with one side, and there are times I agree with the other. Honestly, the more I'm around our present day society the more I lean towards being an Anarchist.

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

[paulcs]

It probably is constitutional.
You just store your guns in a locker at the range.

From what I understand, the ban in D.C. was ruled constitutional because the District of Columbia is a district and not a state. A federal court also ruled the Chicago ban constitutional, and the Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal, but it differed from the the San Francisco ban. The Chicago law didn't apply to pre-existing gun owners. They could keep their weapons. Guns must be registered in Chicago, however, an option San Francisco doesn't have.

I believe San Francisco attempted a ban in the early 80's, but a state court ruled it unconstitutional as it also applied to nonresidents bringing their guns into the city. The court ruled only the state legislature could do that. This law applies only to city residents, who voted on Tuesday to enact the it by a fairly sizable margin.

For a city its size, there are relatively few homicides in San Francisco, and a sizable number of them are gang related, so I doubt this will be much of a deterrent. It was put on the ballot early in the year as a reaction to a "spike" in gang-related homicides in 2004, which was most likely an deterrent. As far as I can tell, it just gives the D.A. another set of charges to pile on people caught committing crimes with guns.

Paul

[schmosef]

There's a movie called "Sucker Free City" about gangs in SF. The movie itself was quite good.

How accurate was it?

[paulcs]

There's a movie called "Sucker Free City" about gangs in SF. The movie itself was quite good.

How accurate was it?

I didn't see it. I wanted to, but I just didn't get around to it.

In 1990, when I first moved to San Francisco, I noticed a lot of gang activity. Strangely well-dressed gangs from the Filmore projects, Nazi skinheads, biker gangs -- the works. The kids from the Filmore and the skinheads were problems. The cops chased the Filmore gang off Haight Street and they ended up on my corner. I cannot tell you how much fun that was. (We had a pretend local gang too. They wore brown plaid, said "excuse me" a lot, and called me sir.) It was there and it was a problem, but nothing on par with Los Angeles or even Minneapolis.

I moved back to New York a couple of years later and then moved back to San Francisco in 1997. The gang problem was far less visible. If you're fortunate enough to not live in the projects or in Bayview-Hunters Point, it's pretty much invisible these days.

Paul