Genesis by physics?

[cjolley]

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The recent fight has been to rectify this situation and convince those schools and city govts. that their information was wrong and that those of faith have every right to be in the public square. No more. No less.
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If this is supposed to be your take on the Dover decision then either you didn't bother to study the case or you are high on crack.

PS. Where has the ACLU argued that a school could celebrate other religious holidays, but not Christmas?

[cjolley]

1. Some physicists think they could create a new universe in the lab by snipping off a piece of spacetime, whereupon it would expand on its own, as a new universe, into another portion of the multiverse.

Would that make them Gods?
Also, would that be a violation of the conservation of energy, mass and angular momentum?
Or does that not apply?

[cjolley]

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2. On the other hand much has been written of late about the universe consisting of three things; matter, energy and information. This is the "holographic universe" theory. If the universe is indeed a hologram then its size and dimensionality are illusory, just as is the size and volume taken up by an optical hologram.
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Interesting idea.
How could anything exist and not contain information about it's self?
Let alone the entire universe.

The idea needs an anchor to swing on like relitivity has C.
Once Einstein pictured the the world as seen through a constant C the rest fell in to place pretty quickly.
He pictured the result of viewing the world at near the boundery of C to see what it really looked like.

So where do we go to see the universe at near a boundary of too much or too little information?
Sounds like blackhole city to me
Or the edge of the universe.
Or both.

[Dr Mordrid]

If this is supposed to be your take on the Dover decision then either you didn't bother to study the case or you are high on crack.

PS. Where has the ACLU argued that a school could celebrate other religious holidays, but not Christmas?

NOT talking about the Dover decision.

I'm talking about what's happening IN THE SCHOOLS and CITIES due to ACLU mis-representing real court decisions (or non-decisions) to them in order to get the "changes" they want. They get their way just by threatening lawsuits, even if they have no basis. Most districts and cities immediately fold without a fight and the ACLU gets their weird little way.

Also a problem is school admins. and city fathers mis-interpeting decisions and coming up with such weirdness as schools banning red and green cookies because they represented "Christian" imagery

Would that make them Gods?
Also, would that be a violation of the conservation of energy, mass and angular momentum?
Or does that not apply?

Nothing about creating a small black hole that pinches itself off into a spacetime bubble violates any of those laws. By definition what happens in/to a black holes singularity is beyond the normal physics we live by.

Who knows if they'd be "gods"? That's my point; God could be a "god" in that he/she/it could create a universe using the same laws used in the mentioned experiment.

Or it could be some alien physicist experimenting with black holes created our universe. If it were me I'd at least leave a greeting card, perhaps with info like "suggestions for living in my universe"

IMO an interesting thought experiment....

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

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I'm talking about what's happening IN THE SCHOOLS and CITIES due to ACLU mis-representing real court decisions (or non-decisions) to them in order to get the "changes" they want. They get their way just by threatening lawsuits, even if they have no basis. Most districts and cities immediately fold without a fight and the ACLU gets their weird little way.

Also a problem is school admins. and city fathers mis-interpeting decisions and coming up with such weirdness as schools banning red and green cookies because they represented "Christian" imagery

Dr. Mordrid

1, What schools and cities? i.e. document a circumstance.

2, You really believe that the ACLU has a bone to pick with Christianity per se?

3, How is stupid administration the fault of the ACLU? Isn't that what School Boards are for?


PS Hijacking your oun thread eh?
( Ok, you had help.)

[cjolley]

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Who knows if they'd be "gods"? That's my point; God could be a "god" in that he/she/it could create a universe using the same laws used in the mentioned experiment.

Or it could be some alien physicist experimenting with black holes created our universe. If it were me I'd at least leave a greeting card, perhaps with info like "suggestions for living in my universe"

IMO an interesting thought experiment....

Dr. Mordrid

Even better: could a "god" create a universe and not know it?
Or worse, not be sure. Which is even more likely.

[cjolley]

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Nothing about creating a small black hole that pinches itself off into a spacetime bubble violates any of those laws. By definition what happens in/to a black holes singularity is beyond the normal physics we live by.

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Not true.
They are all conserved by the black hole as a whole.
At least that is the way I understand it.
(it's been a while)

[Dr Mordrid]

Birmingham, AL - Students at Brookwood Forest Elementary School were asked to create "holiday bags" for their classmates, but they were told the bags could not contain anything religious - no angels, crosses, or words like "Noel," etc. Candy canes were prohibited because they resemble the canes used by the Shepherds in the nativity. Red and green colors and Christmas trees were forbidden. Hanukkah dreidels were permitted.

Medway, MA - The Medway Middle School banned students from wearing red and green elf hats during its "winter" pageant. Christmas trees were called "Magical trees." The school also pulled a religious song from the program.

Mercer County, Ohio - The ACLU sued Mercer County for its “Foundations of American Law and Government” display in the county courthouse that contained the Ten Commandments. The display included the Ten Commandments, the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, the Magna Charta, the Star Spangled Banner, the National Motto, the Preamble to the Kentucky Constitution, the Bill of Rights to the U. S. Constitution, and a picture of Lady Justice.

The Sixth Federal Circuit Court (one step down from the US Supreme Court) adopted the reasoning of the Seventh Circuit in Books v. Elkhart County, where the Seventh Circuit upheld an identical display to that in Mercer County. The Sixth Circuit stated, “Our concern is that of the reasonable person. And the ACLU, an organization whose mission is ‘to ensure that … the government [is kept] out of the religion business,’ does not embody the reasonable person.” The Court’s opinion also rejected the ACLU’s “repeated reference to ‘the separation of church and state.’ "This extra- constitutional construct has grown tiresome. The First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state," the Court said.

and tons of other cases where Christmas songs have been rewritten to exclude their original meanings and other such nonsense.

Other examples are city holiday displays where nativity scenes are OK as long as the baby Jesus isn't in the manger and Mary and Joseph are removed, even though a Menorah and displays by other religions are displayed intact

In most of these cases the discticts have been contacted by the ACLU, received ACLU flyers or been contacted/received flyers from other church-state separation groups telling them these are accepted practices and that violating them would result in a lawsuit. Because of funding issues the districts/cities fold to save money, which encourages the ACLU and similar organizations to keep doing it.

The information they are providing is NOT accurate. In fact court decisions have gone the other way and in many cases has resulted in action by various state and federal Justice Depts. defending the right of children in school and cities to put Christmas and other religions celebrations in the public square.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dr Mordrid]

Not true.
They are all conserved by the black hole as a whole.
At least that is the way I understand it.
(it's been a while)

Outside the event horizon, yes. On the way to the singularity, yes to a point. IN the singularity, no. There the "normal" laws of the universe and physics as we know them collapse.

Membrane theorists (the sucessors to string theorists) believe on the other side of the singularity that caused the big bang you have an 11 dimensional space filled with "branes" (short for membranes) and that a collision between two or more branes caused said big bang. Problem is that there are problems with both string and membrane theory, so much so many theorists are ready to throw up their hands in frustration.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

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The information they are providing is NOT accurate.
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Example?

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on the other side of the singularity that caused the big bang you have an 11 dimensional space filled with "branes" (short for membranes) and that a collision between two or more...

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I wonder what the word "collision" means in this context?

[Dr Mordrid]

"Not accurate" example? I give you the Mercer County, Ohio decision listed in that post. Perfect example of incorrect info by the ACLU and this is confirmed by the US Sixth Circuit court decision.

I also found it entertaining that the court found it necessary to take a swipe at the ACLU's status as a "reasonable person", effectively defining them as an "un-reasonable person".

Priceless

Definition of collision: no one I've read has a better term. Interaction? Interception? They all imply some form of contact, and in an 11 dimensional space that's a lot of contact.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

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Birmingham, AL - Students at Brookwood Forest Elementary School were asked to create "holiday bags" for their classmates, but they were told the bags
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I can't find this anywhere but Worldnet Daily.
Got another source?

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Mercer County, Ohio - The ACLU sued Mercer County for its “Foundations of American Law and Government” display in the county courthouse that contained the Ten Commandments. The display included the Ten Commandments, the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, the Magna Charta, the Star Spangled Banner, the National Motto, the Preamble to the Kentucky Constitution, the Bill of Rights to the U. S. Constitution, and a picture of Lady Justice.

The Sixth Federal Circuit Court (one step down from the US Supreme Court) adopted the reasoning of the Seventh Circuit in Books v. Elkhart County, where the Seventh Circuit upheld an identical display to that in Mercer County. The Sixth Circuit stated, “Our concern is that of the reasonable person. And the ACLU, an organization whose mission is ‘to ensure that … the government [is kept] out of the religion business,’ does not embody the reasonable person.” The Court’s opinion also rejected the ACLU’s “repeated reference to ‘the separation of church and state.’
...

I think you are mixing these two cases:

ACLU of Ohio v. Adams County - U.S. Supreme Court
We represent the Adams County school board which is being sued for permitting a local ministerial association to erect monuments on school property which contain the Ten Commandments. After suit was filed, the Board changed the display into a Foundations of American Law and Government display which includes several other influential texts. On June 11, 2002, the Court ruled in favor of the ACLU of Ohio and ordered the removal of the monument. We appealed to the 6th Circuit which affirmed the District Court's decision. We filed a petition for certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court on July 13, 2004.

ACLU of Kentucky v. Mercer County - 6th Cir. Ct. of Appeals
This case involves a county courthouse display of a number of historic legal texts including the Ten Commandments. The ACLU of Kentucky sued, claiming the display violates the Establishment Clause. The court granted our motion for summary judgment. The ACLU appealed. We argued the appeal on April 27, 2004, in the 6th Circuit and are awaiting a decision.

[cjolley]

Almost forgot

Medway, MA - The Medway Middle School banned students from wearing red and green elf hats during its "winter" pageant. Christmas trees were called "Magical trees." The school also pulled a religious song from the program.

While a large number of right wing sites tie this to the ACLU, the original article makes no mention of them.
Do you have a factual, as opposed to opinion, citation that connects this in any way to the ACLU?

[Wombat]

Not to mention why you think that the 6th Circuit is important and should be respected because it is "one step below" SCOTUS, yet the 9th should be dismissed as a bunch of whackjobs? Go ahead and spout your "most overturned" nonsense, it will just show that you're bad a math.

[Dr Mordrid]

Just referring to the ACLU v. Mercer county case. The ACLU case is pending, but they did lose the first pass. 2nd passes rarely reverse the first pass and the next step would be the USSC.

Since you're quoting the ACLU here's the Liberty Counsel's page on this kind of thing. They're the legal group fighting these cases in court, and winning;

http://lc.org/pressrelease/nr122305.htm

Liberty Consels *.PDF regarding the legalities of holiday celebrations;

http://lc.org/attachments/ChristmasMemo2005.pdf

They know of what they speak since they're currently winning ~90% of their cases.

One of the more recent cases involved the changing of lyrics in Christmas songs by district administrators and school boards. This not only brought complaints from the Liberty Consel but also from the copyright holders of said songs. Needless to say those changes were reversed.

Dr. Mordrid