Crime of the Century

[KvHagedorn]

Wal-Mart employees were commanded not to wish any customer "Merry Christmas" this past year upon pain of firing. Just who is behind this agressive war against Western Civilization?

[Nowhere]

Think, OK? And cool down...

Will a customer who "has Christmas" care? Most probably not.
But what about the ones which "don't have" Christmas? I suppose that, given they hear "merry Christmas" everywhere, they'll almost gladly come back.

[Jessterw]

As much as I think people should just deal with it because it is Christmas, you're definitely right Nowhere. Then again, I doubt Walmart customers care anyhow, but threatening termination of employment is just dirty in itself.

[az]

We had a long thread about this already. Why are you bringing it up again now, after the act, in a new thread, without any new info and this stupid, stupid war rhetoric?

[Jessterw]

Because it's the evil empire. Duh

They have nice pillows though

[Umfriend]

We had a long thread about this already. Why are you bringing it up again now, after the act, in a new thread, without any new info and this stupid, stupid war rhetoric?

Where and why was I not informed?

[az]

Where and why was I not informed?

Actually, I can't find it. I was really sure we've had this topic a short while ago. Damn it! This is the only international forum I visit! Am I imagining things now?

I guess an apology is in order, then: I am sorry, KvH. I was sure we've had a discussion about this just before christmas - apparently I was wrong.

[Marshmallowman]

Wal-mart & "religous holidays" there must be at least 2 threads worth of off the cuff comments in the last couple of months.

Its the general myopic and insular world we live in, no one can see the forrest for the trees anymore.

People getting(choosing to be) insulted by a greeting intended to be freindly and even complimentary .....

[schmosef]

Wal-mart & "religous holidays" there must be at least 2 threads worth of off the cuff comments in the last couple of months.

Its the general myopic and insular world we live in, no one can see the forrest for the trees anymore.

People getting(choosing to be) insulted by a greeting intended to be freindly and even complimentary .....

Are you saying that you wouldn't object to someone sincerely wishing you a "Happy Intel Dev Days?"

Don't get me wrong. I understand your point. I also understand KvH's.

His is about the erosion of values that he believes make America strong.

Some would argue that we don't need religion to teach us moral values. So, experiment with that in your own country. And let KvH grumble about the situation in his.

There's nothing that says you have to read his posts or comment for that matter.

I would say however, that there are far worse "crimes of the century" to be discussed.

[Marshmallowman]

Are you saying that you wouldn't object to someone sincerely wishing you a "Happy Intel Dev Days?"

And a Happy intel Dev Day to you to

I have bought intel in the past and will buy intel again, when they fix their problems.
(I was one of the happiest intel munchkins you ever saw just after I bought my celeron300a years ago)

Chistmas wise, I don't think there are to many athiest who don't celibrate christmas I always thought the intent of what you say is more important.
But we are turing into a very literal world, I wonder if it has anything to do with the sue for profit of mentality or the intense legal debates over inane technicallities by corporates in there never give an inch profit attitude/responsablilty.

[Umfriend]

Are you saying that you wouldn't object to someone sincerely wishing you a "Happy Intel Dev Days?"

You would????

Don't get me wrong. I understand your point. I also understand KvH's.

His is about the erosion of values that he believes make America strong.

Some would argue that we don't need religion to teach us moral values. So, experiment with that in your own country. And let KvH grumble about the situation in his.

There's nothing that says you have to read his posts or comment for that matter.

what? First of all, AFAIK, KVH does not represent the US. Second, this is not a US forum. So when KVH grumbles about the situation in the US on this site, why should anyone be told not to comment?

[Brian Ellis]

In any case, could KvH please point out what the crime is, not to wish someone a Happy Christmas? Please quote the appropriate enactment and jurisprudence showing that a felony or misdemeanour is committed when we do not wish someone that.

Rather to the contrary, your founding fathers decided that the state and religion should be separate, As the Legislative is a state body, then a law requiring that "Merry Christmas" should be wished upon all and sundry would be anti-constitutional. Your subject title is therefore bloody stupid, much more so than the edict pronounced upon the company's employees by Mr Walton & Co.

I could say a lot about the way Christmas is commercialised beyond all recognition of a symbol of the birth of our Saviour. This may not be criminal but it is decidedly sacrilegious to the nth degree. If you wish to attack the commercial enterprises, would it not be far better to point out that Santas, trees, reindeer, cards, turkeys, plum puddings, tinsel, glass balls and so on bear zero relationship to the birth of the Christ, Jesus.

However, there is worse in countries other than the USA, in countries where the separation of church and state does not exist, such as England. Who is the head of the Anglican Church? It is not the highest prelate, the Archbish of Canterbury. He is primate of the Church, but the ruling sovereign, currently Queen Liz, who is the head of the Church and its Defender of the Faith. She, a laywoman, has the right and the duty to ensure the Church remains on the strait and narrow and she can sack the Archbish and all the other bishops, if that be her desire to protect the Church. Fair enough, this has worked up to now. But what happens when she pops her clogs? King George VII (presently known as Prince Charles) will become the Defender of the Faith and head of the same Church that refused to allow him to marry his divorcee wife in the Church of which he will nominally be head. The Primate of that same Church will also stick a crown on the head of the new King in one of the most sacred churches in his realm, Westminster Abbey, in a mass which he, as a sinner living in an adulterous relationship, by the Church's lights, cannot communicate with. This is the kind of mess when state and religion are intermixed: be thankful you live in a country where religion is free from the shackles of the state (at least nominally: you still trust God to look after your greenbacks, ironically).

[Gurm]

Don't get me wrong. I understand your point. I also understand KvH's.

I understand, but don't agree. Why? Read on.

His is about the erosion of values that he believes make America strong.

SUPPOSED values. The problem is that America in general is SUPPOSED to revere small-town, Christian values... but we don't. America in general is NOT one big red state.

Some would argue that we don't need religion to teach us moral values.

Some would argue that ethical values are more important than arbitrary moral values. We cleanly reject many of the biggies of "Christian morality". We have sex for pleasure, we drink to get drunk, and we don't go to church. (Mind you that last one is never explicitly commanded in the Bible, it's just inferred - from the admonition to "gather with like-minded brethren" - by religious leaders afraid nobody will show up on Sunday).

So, experiment with that in your own country. And let KvH grumble about the situation in his.

Ours.

There's nothing that says you have to read his posts or comment for that matter.

I would say however, that there are far worse "crimes of the century" to be discussed.

If I had seen "war on Christmas" I wouldn't have bothered reading the thread. LOL!

[Fat Tone]

First, KvH is right, it is bloody ridiculous, but the thread title is a bit OTT.

Second, when Charlie gets his promotion, he favours 'Defender of the Faiths'. There is a nice little send up of it here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/s...607033,00.html

[Gurm]

Why is it ridiculous? It's a bit extreme, but what's the problem with "Season's Greetings"? Or "Happy Holidays"? Nothing.

People are offended because their time-honored tradition (which isn't particularly time-honored) and Christian sensibilities are being trodden on, or so they think.

But honestly, there are a LOT of people around the world who aren't Christians. Think about that for a minute. Let it seep in. It takes a lot of doing. Not only aren't they Christians, but contrary to Christian propaganda... they don't WANT to be Christians.

Gigantic swaths of the world don't celebrate Christmas. Most of my relatives don't.

So how is this policy different from having a store policy that you shouldn't greet everyone who comes into the store with "PRAISE JESUS!"? I mean, there are a lot of people out there who would be offended by that. What if you walked into a Quik-E-Mart and the guy behind the counter greeted you with "All praise and power be to Ganesh, and his consort Shiva. Please bow down before my mini-elephant idol!"

I'm being absurd, of course. But Apu at the Quik-E-Mart is celebrating a far older tradition than Christmas. And he is polite enough NOT to force it on you. So why is it so hard to contemplate NOT forcing Christianity on others?

People get bent out of shape because of the rabidly expansionist nature of Islam. Maybe because Islam is so inherently violent. But Christianity carries with it the mandate to proselytize to the world, whether the world wants to hear it or not. And that's equally rude.

When I was in college, I was still nominally a Christian. But when I'd walk down the street and the guys with the signs and the leaflets would try to shake my hand and say "Praise Jesus, brother!" I'd turn and say "ALL HAIL SATAN, MY DARK MASTER!" Because they're just rude ****oles. Accosting someone on the street and beating them over the head with your propaganda isn't a good way to gain converts. How about preaching by EXAMPLE? That's a concept that eludes many churches.

So be a good example. Quit jumping up and down, making fools of yourselves about the words "Merry Christmas". I know, it's one more minor battle lost. It's one more denigration of your time-honored (aka about 200 years old) traditions. One more way in which Jesus is slipping out of the lives of Americans (who aren't all that keen on having him in there, although 80% claim to be Christian, perhaps half that number actually have any faith in the guy - and I'm being generous). But it'll make you a more polite person. People will like you more. And maybe that might be just as effective a way to get your message across, after all. Jesus was, when you think of it, kind FIRST. Loving FIRST. He didn't preach first. He loved first.