Crime of the Century

[Umfriend]

Now I do have serious issues with all the advertising, loud and obnoxious offerings and other commercial utterances (and I lack in English here to precisily express myself). Has nothing, *nothing* to do with christmas or the wish for a happy one. In fact, if ppl got free me from that part, which is with halloween etc as well I'm pretty sure, then I'd say thank you (and a happy christmas).

[KvHagedorn]

I am a christian orthodox and lived in Syria for at least 10 years amongst a 90% muslim solciety. When it was a Muslim religious holiday, I would wish friends and their families a happy (whatever at the time) and they used to wish me a Merry Christmas as well, in other words folks, it's all about respecting one another's believe and values.

If someone (and it happened many times) wished me Happy Ramadan I would say thank you but I'm Christian, so you see, the first thing I said was thank you, not an absurd comment or a rude response followed by a law suit etc etc. (they would normally apologize after the fact but it's all in good heart)

People have got to take it easy, take a deep breath and relax, it's not the end of the world when someone is wishing you the best during their holiday season what ever it maybe, contrary, it should be met with a smile, a thank you and move on.

Cheers,
Elie

Exactly. To whom would this not make sense?

[Dr Mordrid]

About every liberal trial lawyer in the US, their moronic customers and the ACLU

OOPS!! Those last two were redundant

Dr. Mordrid

[Umfriend]

Exactly. To whom would this not make sense?

What a liberal, eurotwit, moral relativistic standpoint. I could not agree more.

[Umfriend]

About every liberal trial lawyer in the US, their moronic customers and the ACLU

I'm on thin ice here, not being from the US, but...

AFAIK, Wal-Mart is not a government office or paid for by the government in any way. It's, I assume, private property. I seriously doubt the ACLU would support WM in this case, au contraire, I would assume they'd support an amployee sacked because of this, if they got involved in civil and private sector cases at all (not sure).

[Gurm]

I guess I don't have the hatred of Christianity to make me cringe at even the slightest whisper of its existence.

I don't think any of us do. I think that corporations do - in the same bizarre way that they make any of a large number of corporate policy types of decisions.

I never said it wasn't stupid. Simply that I can see how it happens and why.

Some companies INSIST on giving equal time to ALL the holidays. I don't know which is more irritating - seeing 10 signs up, saying "Merry Christmas/Happy Channukah/Ya Ya Ramadan/KWANZAA! (Written in semi-japanese font, and pronounced like BANZAI!/etc." or just having someone say "Happy Holidays" instead.

[Jessterw]

On Murc, no I don't think there are any of us that are that anal, but I have met several atheists (a few who claimed to be agnostic) who have made it their personal mission to denounce religion and, specifically, Christianity whenever they can. In essence they are doing exactly what they claim they loathe about religious brow beating. Others may not be so bad, but will act as uncomfortable as they can whenever anything remotely religious is mentioned.

Elie had it summed up perfectly. It's all about mutual respect and instead of being so wrapped up in the phrase, take to heart the gist of what is being said. When I wish someone a Merry Christmas, there's no religious overtones in the sentiment, it just happens to be at or near, you guessed it, Christmas. Last I checked, even non-Christians celebrate on Christmas day, even if they don't call it as such (save for various other religions that either already have or have created their own holidays during this time).

My initial post/comment was more in reference to Walmart even thinking about firing an employee for saying "Merry Christmas" instead of the more secular "Happy Holidays". As a quick aside, is not one of the holidays Christmas, so should they not be offended by the mere association? Yeah, being narky there, and back to what I was saying... This incident with Walmart does not appear to be a nation-wide policy, as no such threats were made at various Walmarts throughout the country (yes, I know people who work at Wally World).

[KvHagedorn]

As I heard it, it was a firm directive given to employees. I know someone who actually went in and tested them on it.. giving several of them each a cheery "Merry Christmas," to which none of them dared respond in kind. He said one or two actually had to stop themselves, too.

[Nowhere]

How is this any different than the other holidays we have here in the states? Save for the obvious religious background of two, there's not. Thanksgiving can be offensive to Native Americans who view it as a mockery, Halloween is offensive to some Christians as they view it as a tool of the devil, and then there's Easter. Sure none of these are as a big a deal as Christmas, but they've all become something other than what they were intended.

On the matter of attacking Christmas decorations, are you serious? If we're talking about this because the religious tones that "Christmas" carries, then I certainly don't see how the secular nature of the decorations has to do with anything. Sure there's the odd angel or baby Jesus, but you'd almost have to go looking for them. So the problem there would just be with Christmas in general and not the Christian aspect of it.

It just seems that we're making a big deal of this because we want to loudly pronounce that we don't like it, because of the Christian aspects that are definitely easy to just ignore. I can understand not wanting to be beaten over the head with Christian sensibilities, it's what drove me away (and the abounding ignorance) from the church in the first place, but I've never noticed an overwhelming amount of that during Christmas. I guess I don't have the hatred of Christianity to make me cringe at even the slightest whisper of its existence.

Ahh...you see, it's not different. At all. Or, OTOH, totally different. Because you're missing one point. It has nothing to do with religion at all (so also stop thinking so hard about decorations, you're waaay off)
Simply, as I've said, some stranger who doesn't know us and doesn't really care about us wishes us to be happy, instead of doing something in that direction (so...who wants to argue that people say it just because they wish it to themselves/they want to hear it?)

Same applies to New Year. Exactly, preciselly, the same thing.

[Jammrock]

I like pie?

The main problem is that Walmart is SO HUGE, SO BIG, SO POWERFUL, and has SUCH DEEP POCKETS, that they have become a prime target to ... well ... everyone. This simply requires them to be ultra-politically-correct or face more bad PR and lawsuits. And as anyone in the US can attest to, they have been getting a lot of both lately.

I personally hate Walmart with an unbridaled passion, but I can see why they would do this. I don't see it as an attack on Christanity more than a politcal move to appease the liberal "death to all religion" and "I'm insult that you..." crowd. I guess they didn't expect a backlash from Christians because "Seasons Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" is generic enough that it could cover any number of religious and non-religious celebrations in the December/New Year time frame.

Pie!

[Jessterw]

Ahh...you see, it's not different. At all. Or, OTOH, totally different. Because you're missing one point. It has nothing to do with religion at all (so also stop thinking so hard about decorations, you're waaay off)
Simply, as I've said, some stranger who doesn't know us and doesn't really care about us wishes us to be happy, instead of doing something in that direction (so...who wants to argue that people say it just because they wish it to themselves/they want to hear it?)

Same applies to New Year. Exactly, preciselly, the same thing.

Well you brought up the bit about decorations, so meh. The problem is that damn near everyone who has a complaint about Christmas greetings that aren't completely secular is that religions is involved. So it is refreshing that someone has a new gripe.

Basically you're saying that we shouldn't offer someone a greeting that infers we want them to be happy or the like if we aren't well and ready to make sure we do make them happy. Oh and we damn well better know this person and care about them before even thinking about it. As a southerner that just grates against my sensibilities as being polite and offering up greetings in passing are a way of life. To each their own I guess.

[gt40]

Has anyone actually complained? or is this a result of someone internally deciding this is not appropriate?

[Jessterw]

When I worked at Sears we had a couple individuals complain that they found the "Merry Christmas" banners were offensive, but that would have almost 10 years ago when banners like that were more often allowed than not. So I'm sure there might have been a complaint or two, but I'm betting it's more related to the general atmosphere concerning such things.

My reference to complaints wasn't specific to this case, but rather to the gripes that people have in general.

[schmosef]

While in high school I worked for a Canadian department store chain called Canadian Tire. They're like a crappy hardware store combined with a crappy automotive accessories store combined with a crappy electronics store combined with... oh well, you get the idea.

Around here we just call it "Crappy Tire".

Anyway, the store I worked in underwent a redesign and instead of keeping inventory in the basement they put in these new heavy duty shelving systems that allowed them to store inventory on shelves above the merchandise on display. The theory at the time was to try to make more efficient use of the space and make it so sales people didn't have to go check the warehouse for something if the computer said we had it but it wasn't on the shelf in the store.

Along with the redesign some departments were shuffled around to make better use of the space.

The neighbourhood that the store was in had a high % of retirees. As I recall, we had several crotchety old people come in and yell at whatever employee was nearby because they'd been coming to the store for years and now the batteries were two isles over from where they were used to having them.

One guy in particular I remember went completely ballistic! I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He was yelling and screaming at a cashier at the customer service desk until a department supervisor came by and then he was yelling at her and waving his arms and then I walked over and quietly apologized and suggested he buy his batteries from the Radio Shack in the mall.

I didn't say anything rude to him but I walked right up to him and looked him in the eye and gave him a look like I wasn't about to take his shit. Anyway, he stopped yelling and walked out of the store.

The point of the story is that no matter was a store does, they'll never be able to please all the customers all the time. Some people are just ****oles who are looking for an excuse to let loose.

Had I been a manager, or owned that store, I would have banned that ****ole for life.

If I owned a store and someone got offended by one of my employees wishing them a happy anything, I'd tell them to leave my store and not bother coming back.

As far as Wal-Mart policy goes...

Wal-Mart has right to project themselves any way that they like. What one business does is not a reflection on the morality of the nation.

However, the sooner that Americans wake up and either: a) their government puts heavier restrictions on outsourced goods; b) their government forces businesses like Wal-Mart to take better care of their employees; or c) people stop shopping at a store who's parent company seems hell bent on destroying the American middle class... the better.

[Marshmallowman]

I think greetings should not be at the dictates of store policy. It should be on a personal level if you want to say Merry Christmas ,say it. I don't like the servant mentality large companies like to instil in their "lackies".
Of course you could always use the extreme argument that you feel like saying "f u *hole" as a greeting, but were all this PC crap goes to shit, obstinately insisting on literal interpreation, ignoreing the obvious meaning.