Hamas won the elections

[Umfriend]

I have not seen such claims on Hamas in MSM (but then I really read very little news outside of Dutch publishers). What I have seen for years is some reflection on an "other" side of Hamas: the one where it's leaders don't enrich themselves (or at least not by a long shot compared to Fatah), provide schooling, medic-aid, shelter and food. So yes, Schmo, I guess there is more of a risk there then I had thoguth first.

[Dr Mordrid]

It's not unusal for guerilla movements to provide some benefits in order to endear themselves with the locals. AS far as education goes....depends if you call a radical madrassa a "school".....

IMO we could be looking at the first stages of a Palestinian civil war bewteen Fatah and Hamas.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

Well, if you watch the Colbert Report, you'll know that Hamas is secretly in league with... wait for it... BEARS. That's right.

[Umfriend]

No idea what Bears is....

AFAIK, Hamas' schools are not at all like madrassa's. Sure, religious education comes into play a lot (I presume) instilling extremist views, but it also prepares kids for higher eduation to become lawyers, doctors, engineers etc.

[az]

Hamas is completely unprepared for the huge victory they got. They don't have enough personnell (and some of their high profile people are in exile or in jail in Israel), funding is being pulled out, law enforcement is loyal to Fatah, not the state or Hamas.. This will either force them to cooperate more with the west (including Israel - of course real cooperation here won't happen, but maybe a little less aggression), or to be overthrown by Fatah in a year or so.

[TransformX]

Plate: Democracy
Green frog/toad: Hamas

[KRSESQ]

No idea what Bears is....

Bears. You know, Winnie-the-Pooh? Yogi and Boo-Boo? Gentle Ben? Wear fur coats and sh*t in the woods? Bears.

(I hope you were kidding. I have a hard time telling sometimes.)

((Curses! I've carelessly revealed my one weakness!))

Kevin

[az]

Actually, I have no idea what you're talking about, either.

[schmosef]

It's a joke. The guy does a satirical irreverant news show.

He occasionally has a piece called "threat down" where he lists the biggest threats to the US.

Bears, yes the animals, are always high on his list. It's a running gag. Recently, he said that Hamas was in league with them.

[RedRed]

Yo all

I have been offline for months, but just had to borrow a frienbds PC to have a looksee at the old forum. I stopped posting in Temp, but as this one isnt here, .....

I have done a bit of reading/thinking erc on this since the declaration.

I see it as this.

Hamas got in with a sizeable majority of the vote (remember they were not allowed to field any candidates in Jerusalem at all - otherwise it would have been a whitewash....)

Reasons:
1. Fatah corruption. For years the west has been critizing the Fatah movement for being corrupt - and they probably are..... Hamas, ?geting its funding from Iran?, and providing the only non UN based social services (some Charities also, of course), probably without major corruption, are on a winner there.

2. Fatah lost the election (rather than Hamas winning). When a party has effectively been a dictatorship for 40 years it looses the knowhow of how to fight an election.

3. Loss of figurehead. Becasue Fatah effectively was a one man show with Arafat, his death has caused a fragmentation of Fatah, and lost it most of the 'regular' paestineans vote. This is exacerbated by poor government, point 1.

4. Hamas has a simple message - Fatah seen as having 'sold out' the Palestineans. As the Israelis govt invades chunks of Gaza and the West bank at will, and the international community 'toys' with the the PA plight (remember Sharons west bank pullout was Unilateral, not even consulting the PA), the people see that there is no real choice but abandon Fatah.

5. Fatah gangs. A number fo gangs run Fatah now - as seen by the temporary invasion by Fatah today of PA buildings. The voters dont like it.

6 Fatah being ignored by Israel. Obvious, and with hind sight not doing Either Israel nor Fatah any favors

Its not particularly good for the voters, voting in Hamas, but their position was not exactly strong in the first place!

I have to reurn to the guests now, will post some further thaughts later
Ignore/Flame/whatever, but some thinking on this is good.......

[schmosef]

Some thinking on what?

No one's questioning why Fatah lost and Hamas won.

[lowlifecat]

Some thinking on what?

No one's questioning why Fatah lost and Hamas won.

I thought it was obvious why; fatah's corruption and israeli bloodthirstyness is why.

[TransformX]

I thought it was obvious why; fatah's corruption and israeli bloodthirstyness is why.

You don't want me to get started about it, right?

[Gurm]

Hamas IS in league with bears. Well, not REAL bears. But they're still spreading bear-related propaganda to Palestinian schoolchildren, which can't possibly be a GOOD thing.

[lowlifecat]

You don't want me to get started about it, right?

Is that a threat or a promise?

As it stands, the corruption in Fatah wouldn't have been enough to seriously hurt Fatah politicly. The palistinians are arab and share the strange ability to live with govermental corruption wit the rest of the arab world. Most think it's normal and to be expected!

Hamas played it's cards smartly. They provided the basics that Fatah couldn't and where given a political edge by the israelis. The targeted killings campaign DID NOT bring any extra security but the exact opposite; it gave Hamas a whole lot more martyrs, and as everyone can see a new democratic mandate from the palistinian people.