"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

[Nowhere]

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Not that surprising really...

[Admiral]

It's all about familly support and it's sad to see this paradox happening.
How many of these "Christian" parrents understand that their daughter "sinned" (and this is open for debate) and the child actually has no fault, how many of them say keep the child we'll support you, having a child no matter is a gift.
It's either the familly is ashamed by a premarrige child and go for abortion; the girl is ashamed, tells nobody and goes for abortion; girl decides to keep the child but is bannished by the familly...

edit: I should add have the baby but put up for adoption...

[az]

Very good text. It has been my belief for a few years now that it's very easy to be pro-life until you actually face a situation where abortion becomes an important option yourself, just like it's easy to condemn genetic manipulation as long as you yourself don't need an organ cloned.

[Gurm]

Just like you can easily chant the "stem cells are murder" line until you have Parkinson's... etc.

Moral relativism at its finest!

[KvHagedorn]

Now, here is the big philosophical question.. if murder (of someone already born) was legal, would you kill someone if you "felt" you had "no other choice?" That is, say a person inconveniences your life to a great degree (this is often the "reason" women want an abortion).. say your boss hates you and is pushing you to the limit trying to get you to quit a good job.. could you rationalize the murder of this person? If crushing his skull with large metal implements were legal? Just think about this..

This just illustrates how emotional and irrational such a decision has to be. Someone needs to step in and put a limit to it. If it is legal, many people will still consider it murder.. and not just the "right wing Christians" you all seem to hate with such virulence. I saw a 22 week abortion mentioned.. if a woman is going to do this, it needs to be as early as possible.. hemming and hawing about it for 4 months until the child is more developed just compounds the wrong done. They really need to put a legal limit on abortion, at say, 13 weeks.

[az]

Now, here is the big philosophical question.. if murder (of someone already born) was legal, would you kill someone if you "felt" you had "no other choice?"

Yes.

That is, say a person inconveniences your life to a great degree (this is often the "reason" women want an abortion).. say your boss hates you and is pushing you to the limit trying to get you to quit a good job.. could you rationalize the murder of this person? If crushing his skull with large metal implements were legal?

No.

I saw a 22 week abortion mentioned.. if a woman is going to do this, it needs to be as early as possible.. hemming and hawing about it for 4 months until the child is more developed just compounds the wrong done. They really need to put a legal limit on abortion, at say, 13 weeks.

Yes. In fact, I believe the limit here is 12 weeks, except for cases where extreme disabilities are discovered later.

[Wombat]

Someone needs to step in and put a limit to it.

There already is. States cannot restrict abortions before the fetus is independently viable. They're allowed to after that period.

[Brian Ellis]

Yes.



No.



Yes. In fact, I believe the limit here is 12 weeks, except for cases where extreme disabilities are discovered later.

I have perhaps more radical beliefs on this issue, but I don't think that a rigid time limit is an issue. If I were a benign dictator (again), I would allow abortion ONLY for one of the following reasons:

1. in case of incest or rape. it should be done as soon as the pregnancy is confirmed and certainly within ~6 weeks

2. in case of severe handicap of the foetus, no time limit

3. in case of conjointment of 2 foeti, with a shared vital organ, as soon as discovered

4. in case of multiple foeti (>3) in cases where it would be unlikely that all could be brought to term, reducing the number to 1 or 2

5. in case of where the mother's mental or physical health or life would be at high risk, as soon as discovered

Note that this list does not include using it as a means of birth control, except in the special cases outlined in 1. And young teen-age pregnancies would not be eligible except if one of the above 5 cases applied. There is such a thing as being responsible for one's acts and the resultant offspring can be put out for adoption, if the mother can/will not look after it.

OTOH, the "morning-after" pill should be freely available to avoid many of the needs for abortion where traditional birth control measures cannot be used or fails. I cannot see any moral grounds against it, because it prevents implantation of the egg in the uterus wall, so is not a destruction of a foetus.

[Wombat]

1. in case of incest or rape. it should be done as soon as the pregnancy is confirmed and certainly within ~6 weeks

Why? I don't understand this exception at all. If "abortion is murder," then why does it matter who the father is?

[Gurm]

Why? I don't understand this exception at all. If "abortion is murder," then why does it matter who the father is?

Thus the double-edged sword of morality/religious conviction.

[dshumake]

20 questions: from MollySavesTheDay

http://mollysavestheday.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_mollysavestheday_archive.html#114188003222232180

Twenty Questions -- Baby Killing Edition
Since many of the people commenting on that other post are referring to "murder" in one form or another, here are some questions for those of you who claim to believe that abortion is murder, and that all women who receive them are "murdering their babies."

1) Should women who abort get life sentences in prison and/or the death penalty?
2) If a woman's husband knows she is aborting, should he be charged as an accessory to murder?
3) How about her friends who know?
4) Should abortion doctors receive life sentences in prison and/or the death penalty?
5) If a woman smokes during her pregnancy and the fetus dies as a result, should she be charged with murder?
6) If her husband knew she was a smoker and could kill the fetus, is he criminally negligent?
7) If a woman eats unhealthily during pregnancy and the fetus dies, should she be charged with negligent homicide?
8) If the husband knew, should he, too, be charged?
9) If a woman has a serious medical condition that would almost always lead to the death of a fetus, but gets pregnant anyway, should she be criminally liable if the fetus dies?
10) If her husband knew of this condition, should he, too, be criminally liable?
11) If a company manufactures a product which lights a fire in a fertility clinic, destroying 1500 frozen embryos, should they be liable for mass murder?
12) If an electric company has a power failure which cuts power to a fertility clinic, thawing embryos and rendering them unusable, should they be liable for mass murder?
13) If a pregnant woman reports to her doctor that she is smoking during her pregnancy, should her doctor be mandated to report it to the appropriate agency for dealing with child abuse?
14) If a woman has cancer and her chemotherapy kills a fetus, should she be given a life sentence and/or sentenced to die?
15) If her doctor was aware of her pregnancy, should he be charged as an accessory to murder?
16) Should children who are disabled be allowed to sue a parent for any negligent conduct during pregnancy that may have caused their disability -- for instance, smoking or consuming alcoholic beverages?
17) Should a person with 15 frozen embryos in storage be required to carry each embryo as soon as possible?
18) If I had 15 embryos in storage, should I be able to claim them as dependents on my tax paperwork?
19) If a government agency determined that a woman was being neglectful to her fetus during her pregnancy, should she be forced by the Department of Children and Families to care for the child and/or have it forcefully removed?
20) Should one in three American women be imprisoned or sentenced to death?

If you answered "no" to ANY ONE of these questions, you may hate abortion with all your heart, but you do NOT believe a fetus has the same legal rights as a person from the moment of conception. You may think abortion is disgusting and morally abhorrent, but unless you answered an emphatic "yes" to all of the above, you do not believe that fetuses are actually human beings with human rights. If you answered "yes" to every single one of these questions, you at least have some strong convictions -- but I'm guessing very few people would want to live in that world.

[TransformX]

Good one dshumake!

[KvHagedorn]

One in three American women have had an abortion? Now that's sad.

[Nowhere]

Yep, assuming your neighborhood has 100 people, about 17 of them had an abortion. And BTW, 10 of them are homosexual
(I noticed that for some reason making people realise what the numbers mean causes that they look at things in a different way...)

[KvHagedorn]

That's far, far too many. I would bet that under 10% of those children were the result of rape or incest or were a danger to the health of the mother. From what I know about people (and confirmed for me by the article which starts this thread), they are utterly selfish things, ruled by irrational emotion. Would you like to have had your life summarily snuffed out because your mother was like this? How many mothers would kill their own children once they are born? Happily, their better emotions have usually kicked in at this time, and not many do, though there are too many tales of dumpster babies, as well.

Women have a far more vital role to play on this earth than becoming lawyers or whatever and making lots of money, and they have been fed the lie that their lives will be "ruined" if they have that baby, etc. etc. but it's not true. Nothing is more important than having children and making a family. We are not immortal Gods whose irrational feelings should be pandered to. We are not the end product.

THE PURPOSE OF ALL LIFE IS PROCREATION.