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  • The Real Cost of Driving....

    Not very politically correct, but too true;

    The Real Cost of Driving
    By Lawrence Henry
    Published 5/12/2006 12:07:48 AM

    So gas prices zoom up to, and sometimes past, $3.00 a gallon, and here I am driving a 1992 Cadillac Sedan de Ville. I do mostly short-leg poke-around suburban driving, and the car gets about 15 mpg. (It gets 23-25 mpg on the highway.) You might imagine I'd be shopping for an economy car to cut my weekly bill at the gas pump. Au contraire, mon frere. I am exactly where I thought I would be when I bought the car two years ago, even anticipating expensive gasoline.

    Saving money.

    As well, driving a car that I love. Wonderful comfy leather seats, a fabulous stereo system, luxurious wood trim, lots of backseat room for my rambunctious boys and my big fool dog, wonderful heating and a/c, a trunk that holds three golf bags on a semi-permanent basis throughout the summer with room left over for groceries, a 4.9 liter V-8 engine, a solid comfortable ride -- all for a purchase price of $4,300. Front wheel drive makes the big sedan surprisingly nimble and handles the heavy local snow just fine. No need for collision insurance, and when -- not if -- somebody clips me in a grocery store parking lot, I just shrug and drive away.

    The most expensive part of driving is buying the car, I reasoned when I bought the Caddie. Get a good car for a low price with fairly low mileage, and all other costs would be accommodated in that low initial outlay. I've owned the car two years now. Let's see how the numbers have worked out. More important, let's work out the total cost of driving so as to make an accurate comparison with a modern economy car -- a new Toyota Prius.

    FOR THE SAKE OF COMPARISON, I have included purchase price, non-ordinary maintenance (all cars require oil changes), and gasoline. I could, in good conscience, have cut out one of my major series of repairs, the three grand or more to replace my car's steering rack. That all started when I cratered the front end in one of our local cavernous springtime potholes. Any car could have an accident, I might argue. But I'm being generous. I'll include that in the total for the Caddie.

    Similarly, I'll assume that nothing breaks on the Prius.

    Let's start with gasoline and assume that it has cost $3.00 a gallon for the past two years. I have driven 20,000 miles. Assuming a 15 mpg rate for all that driving (worst case), I have spent $4,000 on gas. We'll be generous and give the Prius 45 mpg, which also makes the comparison easy. For gas, the Prius costs one-third of $4,000, or $1333.

    According to Automotive.com, a new Prius costs $21,725, plus any of dozens of various "packages" costing up to $6,890. Drop a "package" number in the middle, at $3,500, and you get a purchase price of $25,225. Ah, but then comes the dealer premium. Priuses and other hybrids are hot-selling cars these days. According to Consumer Reports, dealers charge anywhere from $1,500 to $4,000 just for the privilege of buying the darn thing. So call it $27,225.

    The Caddie, to repeat, cost me $4,300 with 80,000 miles on it. Let's add $500 to that for the new tires I had to buy right away. $4,800.

    NOW FOR MAINTENANCE. OLD CARS NEED FIXING. Can't get away from that. From my records, here's what I've spent, in reverse order date order:

    10/05 Tires $322.50
    9/05 Diagnosis $47.35
    8/05 Steering rack, coolant pipe $2819.57
    5/05 Struts $636.66
    4/05 Alignment $81.63
    4/05 New tire, repair $107.50
    11/04 Idle speed control motor, water pump $463.90
    11/03 Door handle $275.52
    8/05 Battery $193.07
    7/04 Catalytic converter $362.46
    7/04 Tire rotation $75.00

    TOTAL $5,385.16

    Total cost for two years of driving the Cadillac, $4,300 + $500 + $4,000 + $5,385.16, or $14,185. Cost per mile, 70 cents. Total cost for two years of the Prius, $27,225 + $1,333, or $28,558. Cost per mile, $1.42.
    Let's repeat that for good measure:

    Old Caddillac: $0.70 per mile

    Oh-so P.C. Toyota Prius Hybrid: $1.42 per mile

    The "econobox" is TWICE AS EXPENSIVE TO DRIVE!!
    THAT COMPARISON HOLDS TRUE AS WELL for other kinds of cars than tenderly cared for old Cadillacs, if that doesn't happen to be your taste. Consumer Affairs tested six popular hybrids against their all-gas counterparts to find out how long it would take to recover the hybrid price premium. The magazine's comparison found that

    "...None of the six hybrids tested recovered its price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership. In fact, the extra ownership costs over five years for those vehicles ranged from $3,700 to $13,300.

    After factoring in federal tax credits and fuel savings that are based on gas prices rising to $3 and then to $4 a gallon, CR's calculations show that the most cost-effective hybrids, the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius, still cost $3,700 and $5,250 more than their all-gas peers (the Civic EX sedan and Corolla LE sedan, respectively) after five years."


    There's good news and bad news for consumers in comparisons like this. The good news, we can now see how to drive cheaper. The bad news, regulators won't like these numbers. Look for legislation in the not-too-distant future to "get old gas guzzlers off the road."

    Me, I figure to drive the Sedan de Ville another two or three years, then buy the Cadillac just then coming into the $4,000 range, the wonderful mid-nineties Eldorado. I hope I don't have to hurry.
    And people wonder why we still have our old Voyager & Grand Caravan, both of which are more reliable & cheaper to run/maintain than either of the above
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 13 May 2006, 21:28.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    cost to environment in polutants?
    Juu nin to iro


    English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.

    Comment


    • #3
      Has anybody ever pretended that saving the planet was going to be cost-free? This is totally irrelevant.

      In any case, there are several errors in his reasoning. He admits that most of his driving is urban, yet he quotes what Prius drivers find for mileage on highway use. Urban use of the Prius has a much better figure than 45 mpg, usually about 55 mpg.

      Even taking his figures, he has emitted three times as much greenhouse gas CO2 and probably six times as much particulate matter, NOx, CO, SOx and HCs, because the cat converter and lambda intake can never be as efficient after 14 years of service as a new one.

      Such an article is environmentally irresponsible and displays a total selfishness based on personal economy with no thought for the well-being of society. Has the author thought that his egoism may have contributed to condemning someone to a crippling and chronic disease? Has he thought that he and all gas-guzzler drivers have, in all probability, helped condemn this planet to the effects of climate change? All so he can save 70 c per mile.
      Brian (the devil incarnate)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Brian Ellis
        Has anybody ever pretended that saving the planet was going to be cost-free? This is totally irrelevant.

        In any case, there are several errors in his reasoning. He admits that most of his driving is urban, yet he quotes what Prius drivers find for mileage on highway use. Urban use of the Prius has a much better figure than 45 mpg, usually about 55 mpg.

        Even taking his figures, he has emitted three times as much greenhouse gas CO2 and probably six times as much particulate matter, NOx, CO, SOx and HCs, because the cat converter and lambda intake can never be as efficient after 14 years of service as a new one.

        Such an article is environmentally irresponsible and displays a total selfishness based on personal economy with no thought for the well-being of society. Has the author thought that his egoism may have contributed to condemning someone to a crippling and chronic disease? Has he thought that he and all gas-guzzler drivers have, in all probability, helped condemn this planet to the effects of climate change? All so he can save 70 c per mile.
        Cannot agree more Brian - but only if you consider the air pollution as a result of fossil fuel burned in isolation as the yardstick for determining the cost of saving the planet.

        Guess the nice slab of batteries in the Prius contains no harmful chemicals/metals, didn't have to be produced to start off with and doesn't have to be recycled ?

        The "gas guzzler" exist already - the Prius has to be created - guess the manufacturing costs because of that process to the environment and Earth in general is totally irrelevant and non-existent, is it?


        Overall - I will bet you that the gas-guzzler will be "environmentally cheaper" in totality when an honest and objective comparison is made to include all the real costs and concerns ........................

        But then what do I know
        Lawrence

        Comment


        • #5
          you spen nearly $300 on a door handle????
          The Welsh support two teams when it comes to rugby. Wales of course, and anyone else playing England

          Comment


          • #6
            LVR, you will have to take into account the production and eventual recycling of the gaz guzzler as well.

            Still looking for stats on this people.

            Edit: unless of course the caddy was created when the world formed, and will be in existance when the sun goes poof.
            Juu nin to iro


            English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sasq
              LVR, you will have to take into account the production and eventual recycling of the gaz guzzler as well.

              Still looking for stats on this people.

              Edit: unless of course the caddy was created when the world formed, and will be in existance when the sun goes poof.
              Agreed - but then these kind of comparisons usually involves motivating replacing an existing vehicle with something new - today.

              The current state of Earth being the starting point, a caddy etc will still win I bet if all is said and done
              Lawrence

              Comment


              • #8
                over which time frame? how long before the caddy needs to be junked because its falling apart compared to the toyota?

                new cars will be made. cars are designed to reach end of life after about 10 years.
                Here they have to be recycled. much of what comes out, goes into a new one.
                Juu nin to iro


                English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.

                Comment


                • #9
                  And I suppose it was environmentally more benign to make a 2 tonne Caddy than a 900 kg Prius? Not to mention that post-2000 cars are made to be easily recycled to about 90% with appropriate markings to identify materials which would otherwise be doubtful. No car in 1992 was designed for recycling and markings were non-existent. The only parts that were economically recyclable were the steel bodywork and the larger cast iron/forged engine and drive components -- and they took much more work to recover than in a modern car.

                  And I do believe fossil fuel combustion is both a major contributor to the risk of climate change AND as the major single contributor to soaring health care costs, worldwide; see http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/files/credo.htm. However, transport emissions represent only roughly 45% of the total, but it is a 45% that is the easiest to reduce to 20-25% within a decade if only we dropped the senseless arrogance of driving vehicles that are far too heavy and over-powered to drive the kids to school, go to the supermarket and show our neighbours we have something bigger and better than they.
                  Brian (the devil incarnate)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Env. and health issues aside, his economy argument is fundamentally flawed: He's including the cost of an old car vs a new one. Preumably we can expect the Prius to still be on the road long after the caddy had been recycled into baked bean tins. He should only include the depreciation on the cars (or something based on that) not the purchase price. Duh!
                    FT.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How would the comparision pan out if he compared a new Cadillac to the Prius as opposed to a second hand one?

                      I don't know what the result would be, perhaps it may not be a whole lot different as i don't know the new car prices in the US, however i'd be willing to bet that even if it still was in favour of the Cadillac it would be a damn sight closer.

                      As they say "The devil is in the detail" & "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics"...

                      A "study" or "comparision" if it can be called that can be made to come to any conclusion you want it to if you tailor the information to suit your cause.

                      I'll go on believing what I think is correct until such time as i'm shown different by a totally independent and impartial source. As this doesn't exist and isn't likely to exist ever, i guess i'll have to make up my own mind...
                      ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Motherboard, Intel Core i7 2600K CPU @ 4.3GHz, G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 32GB DDR3 Ram, Pioneer DVR-219L DVDRW, OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD, Western Digital Black 1TB SATA HDD, Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB, Everything being driven by Windows 10 Professional (64Bit)...

                      Bored Yet?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brian Ellis
                        And I suppose it was environmentally more benign to make a 2 tonne Caddy than a 900 kg Prius? Not to mention that post-2000 cars are made to be easily recycled to about 90% with appropriate markings to identify materials which would otherwise be doubtful. No car in 1992 was designed for recycling and markings were non-existent. The only parts that were economically recyclable were the steel bodywork and the larger cast iron/forged engine and drive components -- and they took much more work to recover than in a modern car.

                        And I do believe fossil fuel combustion is both a major contributor to the risk of climate change AND as the major single contributor to soaring health care costs, worldwide; see http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/files/credo.htm. However, transport emissions represent only roughly 45% of the total, but it is a 45% that is the easiest to reduce to 20-25% within a decade if only we dropped the senseless arrogance of driving vehicles that are far too heavy and over-powered to drive the kids to school, go to the supermarket and show our neighbours we have something bigger and better than they.
                        For a bunch of propeller-heads (me too) patrolling this forum the conclusions are simply amazing.

                        Nobody said anything about rather buying a new gas-guzzler than a new Prius today - that is a no-brainer because the production costs (? same? - doubt it personally) and factors involved makes it so (hopefully).

                        What has been said in the study is this:

                        The world has already been screwed up to the point where we find ourselves now - no argument by anybody here I would guess - that point includes the fact that a gas-guzzler has already been produced - ie - that initial cost has already been paid. Today here and now given the screwed up world as it already is, we do not have to pay the penalty of creating that perfectly servicable gas guzzler therefore, and at best you can therefore deduct the recycling cost of the gas-guzzler from the initial production cost of the Prius to make them both stand before you at the time of making a choice - sure it will make the Prius look better, but I still will bet the old caddy is going to win.

                        So lets make this ridiculous prediction:

                        The Prius, lets say, is flavor of the month today. Next year there is a vehicle improving emissions and efficiency of operation by 30% from the Prius standards (yeah right!) ....................... so shall we now immediately run out and replace all the year-old Prius vehicles that are still serviceable? .................................. don't think so if you are honest with yourself - so why the hell go and kill a caddy just by default?
                        Lawrence

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OK, let's take the arguments to a logical conclusion. If the guy had bought a 1975 Toyota Corolla in good working order, he would have paid a few hundred dollars in capital costs and had something capable of 35 mpg. He would pay far less for fuel and maintenance and possibly have been able to run it for 35 or 40 c/mile, thereby saving a lot of his precious lolly. What would be against this? He would not have had a battleship-style rolling American ride but he would have been able to do his urban travel in exactly the same time. He would not have leather seats (hell in hot weather), but upholstered ones which allow air to pass under your posterior. He would not have had wood trimmings, but he would have the reliability of a Japanese car (assuming it was not totally clapped out).

                          Even though it would be a lot worse than a Prius from the point of view of pollution, it would certainly be a helluva sight better than his Caddy.

                          Always a good idea to take things reductio ad absurdam to find out where the logic lies.
                          Brian (the devil incarnate)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I thought 1975 Jap cars were rust buckets and fell to bits in two years.

                            Three Dollers a gallon thats cheap guess you guys need to go up to ten dollers a gallon before it starts really hurting.
                            Chief Lemon Buyer no more Linux sucks but not as much
                            Weather nut and sad git.

                            My Weather Page

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Always a good idea to take things reductio ad absurdam to find out where the logic lies.
                              Indeed - but that is not the logical conclusion for the simple fact that he is already sitting with the caddy in the driveway as it is - he did not buy a Corolla.

                              Stick to the point of the caddy being present here and now.

                              Personally I wouldnt have bought and never did buy any huge and heave vehicle, but be realistic about it - I would have exactly the same argument for my 1985 VW Golf as the caddy - please dont make a farce out of the discussion.

                              The caddy exist - deal with it.
                              Lawrence

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