:(

[Jammrock]

http://www.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/jesuscamp/trailer/

I don't know what to say about this. Just ...

[Dr Mordrid]

They're actually a smaller percentage than their volume indicates. 99% of bible camps are nowhere near so over the top, but of course their opposite numbers on the secularist movments would have you think otherwise.

[Brian Ellis]

I think it's great, catching young kids on the emotional bandwagon. As they grow up and are able to reason logically, they will be better armed to weigh up the arguments on all sides of radical evangelism, mainstream Christianity, agnosticism and atheism. They can therefore make their choice - and I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of them will reject this kind of fundamentalism, at least the more intelligent ones.

Actually, the snippets in that trailer sounded familiar and then I realised I was listening to the same thing as young kids, in a BBC documentary I watched a few months ago, being brainwashed in an extremist Islamic school in Pakistan.

However, is this thread where it ought to be?

[Gurm]

I've been telling you people that this is what a growing percentage of evangelical Christinaity is trending towards for some time now, but none of you beleived me...

[agallag]

Not quite "none" of us. Although I didn't need you to tell me about it. These people have been scaring the pants off me since I was about 7 years old.

[Jessterw]

Hrm. Was there ever a time that Evangelicals weren't moving this direction? Most of my family is traditionally (Southern) Baptist and even they find them somewhat scary. It's all the worse when you consider that it's been the Evangelicals leaders that have routinely found to be corrupt, though they've tried to distance themselves from that legacy the past couple decades.

There is nothing really shocking about this either. Organized religion breeds extremism and zealotry. This is all the more true for organized Christianity, a religion that has little to do with its roots - you know, Jews that believe in Christ as the saviour. They're few these days compared to the faith that now lays claim to that.

[Wombat]

Hrm. Was there ever a time that Evangelicals weren't moving this direction?

Yes. Before the rise of premillenial dispensationalism in the 1830s (thanks to Darby and his followers), there wasn't quite this sense of urgency in the Christian ranks. Previously, the goal was a peaceful earth, so that Christ would come reign afterward. Now, the fundamentalists feel that it is their responsibility to hasten Christ's coming (hopefully in their own lifetime), in order to cause peace afterward. And that's pretty much when the shit hit the fan.

[Jammrock]

Not all organized religion breeds extremism and zealotary. Many do, I'll grant that, but not all. There are always factions within an organization, and not just religious ones, that are either zealotous or liberal and everything in between.

I don't know, for some reason this trailer made me sad. It just makes me sad when any message of love, peace and prosperity is twisted into an extremist ideal of militant grade zealotry. And to see it being done to children ... to those whom Jesus in the New Testament loved and blessed and healed so much, just makes it all the more sad.

If any of the mods feel this needs to be elsewhere, then go ahead and move it. As long as the discussion can stay civil I don't think ti belongs elsewhere though. This wasn't meant to be a soapbox rant, just a something I needed to get off my chest.

Jammrock

[Jessterw]

Yes. Before the rise of premillenial dispensationalism in the 1830s (thanks to Darby and his followers), there wasn't quite this sense of urgency in the Christian ranks. Previously, the goal was a peaceful earth, so that Christ would come reign afterward. Now, the fundamentalists feel that it is their responsibility to hasten Christ's coming (hopefully in their own lifetime), in order to cause peace afterward. And that's pretty much when the shit hit the fan.

Well I was referring more to the modern incarnation of Evangelicalism, which is definitely not the same as that which proceeded it. Then again, maybe not. Christianity has a history of being used to further goals which are not inline with it's origins - the Crusades, etc. And no, Christianity is not alone in being used as a tool to further a cause.

Not all organized religion breeds extremism and zealotary. Many do, I'll grant that, but not all. There are always factions within an organization, and not just religious ones, that are either zealotous or liberal and everything in between.

No, you're right, not all do. But the potential is always there and usually starts within those factions and often starts to gain ground within the organization as a whole. Sometimes it's hard to see extremism, because it can manifest itself in ways that aren't as obvious as others (such as violence).

But yes, it's sad that children ever be used in such a way.

I'm not sure if this needs to stay in the Lounge and not because it's anything but a civil conversation at this point, but rather because the other forums were created to specifically keep threads with those topics out of the Lounge. I won't be moving it though.

[Wombat]

A note to foreign/non-native-English readers. We're generally talking about modern American Evangelism, which has a different meaning than in other places or times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

[TransformX]

I vote for all of us to enter the closet and become SCIENTOLOGYSTS !!!

[az]

A note to foreign/non-native-English readers. We're generally talking about modern American Evangelism, which has a different meaning than in other places or times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

I was just going to say how ironic I find it that in Germany, one of the two large christian churches is the evangelical/protestant one, and is regarded as far more modern and open than the catholic church with their reactionary celibacy etc.

[Nowhere]

Related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_belief_in_god.png

damn, I wasn't aware that I can search so close for "mostly safe" country...