"Man jailed for beheading girlfriend's kitten"

[ZokesPro]

I concede... that it's POSSIBLE... that you have such a good natured cat that it's never come up. *shrug*

It's FURTHER possible, in the same way that it's possible for quantum tunneling to occur spontaneously, that you've never booted the cat across the room because it was dark and you were trying to get to the bathroom and the cat wanted to cuddle your leg.

And I suppose that it might be possible, in the grand scheme of things, that maybe you don't have a cat that likes to lurk on the top step of your stairs, right where you'd step on it while carrying something heavy.

But pretty unlikely.

It has happened that my cat came up to rub my leg and that I might have accidentally have kicked it slightly or tripped over it, but not with as much force as it project it across the room or even hurt it for that matter. But if that happens to you and your cat flies across the room then it makes me wonder if you do it on purpose or not. Unless you run around your house instead of walking.

[KvHagedorn]

I'm not saying cats are children, or that you would necessarily risk your life to the same extent to save your cat as you would your child, but they are on a similar intellectual level as a toddler (tests I read about put the intellect of an adult cat at about that of a 3yo child) and have feelings. Don't tell me they don't either, because the reaction of my female cat when one of her kittens was being taken home by her new owner was that of a distressed parent. There was a program on TV I remember as well.. an older child and then a baby each pull this cat's tail. The cat turns around and hisses at the older child, but is very tolerant of the young baby. There are countless other instances as well. And it's not sick or weird to consider a cat a friend. In fact, if you respect them as such, they can be very good friends in return.

[KvHagedorn]

I concede... that it's POSSIBLE... that you have such a good natured cat that it's never come up. *shrug*

It's FURTHER possible, in the same way that it's possible for quantum tunneling to occur spontaneously, that you've never booted the cat across the room because it was dark and you were trying to get to the bathroom and the cat wanted to cuddle your leg.

And I suppose that it might be possible, in the grand scheme of things, that maybe you don't have a cat that likes to lurk on the top step of your stairs, right where you'd step on it while carrying something heavy.

But pretty unlikely.

Shoving them out of your way with your leg is not kicking, and I did train my cats to get the heck out of the way. My dad accidentally stepped on one of my cats tails once or twice and he made sure to not be where a foot was landing after that. Maybe he was smarter than your cat, though.

[Jessterw]

I've never kicked a cat I owned. As I stated much earlier I did throw a cat we had once, but only because it had felt the need to jump on me - claws extended - in the middle of the night... I'd say it was more reflexes than not, but I sure as hell don't feel sorry for it. I have also kicked a cat, and given the circumstances, I'd do it again. The circumstances being a cat trying to attack my then 2 year old son.

I disagree though that a cat merely behaving badly requires it to be kicked or whatnot. The water bottle method works wonders if you don't abuse it, and no, I'm not one of those parents who believes spanking is abuse (those who do have never truly been abused I imagine). A light swat on the hand or butt is not abuse, to a child or an animal.

And I think there's a big difference between accidently stepping or otherwise harming an animal than intentionally going after it with force. I don't know anyone who hasn't accidently stepped on a cat's paw or tail, but I know a lot of people who would never kick a cat without a very, very good reason.


I think we can all agree though that tearing a kitten's head off in malice is a pretty f*-up thing to do, regardless.

[Gurm]

I've never kicked a cat I owned. As I stated much earlier I did throw a cat we had once, but only because it had felt the need to jump on me - claws extended - in the middle of the night... I'd say it was more reflexes than not, but I sure as hell don't feel sorry for it. I have also kicked a cat, and given the circumstances, I'd do it again. The circumstances being a cat trying to attack my then 2 year old son.

I disagree though that a cat merely behaving badly requires it to be kicked or whatnot. The water bottle method works wonders if you don't abuse it, and no, I'm not one of those parents who believes spanking is abuse (those who do have never truly been abused I imagine). A light swat on the hand or butt is not abuse, to a child or an animal.

And I think there's a big difference between accidently stepping or otherwise harming an animal than intentionally going after it with force. I don't know anyone who hasn't accidently stepped on a cat's paw or tail, but I know a lot of people who would never kick a cat without a very, very good reason.


I think we can all agree though that tearing a kitten's head off in malice is a pretty f*-up thing to do, regardless.

EGGGGGGGGGG-zactly!

Someone got it!

DING DING DING!

...

Ok, look. I confess I sometimes (maybe even often) take a contrary position to make a point. And as often as not, nobody gets it. *sigh*

The original point here that I was protesting was the "anyone who hurts an animal will hurt a child". It's a ridiculous assertion.

Some of you apparently somehow got the idea that I walk around kicking cats. While some men do this when their girlfriends aren't looking, I don't fall into that category.

...

Last but not least... KvH, there does not exist a cat as smart as a 3-year-old. I've seen chimps smarter than small children, but not cats. Haven't spent much time with 3-year-olds if you make that assertion. I'm not even talking about MY kids, who are arguably exceptional, but rather 3-year-olds in GENERAL.

[cjolley]

...
never kick a cat without a very, very good reason.
...

This discussion just amazes me.

EVERYBODY, incuding my 80 year old mother whose cats are in her will for gods sake, have swatted a cat off the kitchen counter, or accidentaly stepped on one.

What does the normal rough and tumble of human/cat relations have to do with kicking?
The law even has a phrase for it: "Even a dog knows the difference between being tripped over and kicked."

I would like somebody to describe to me a good reason for an adult male human to kick a cat.
I'd settle for even a "very, very good reason."

[Jessterw]

I think I already did to be blunt. But for sake of clarity...

When our son was two, he was outside playing and a stray cat came near. To our fault, we just assumed it was once of that cats that lived in the same apartment complex as we did. Events aren't as clear in my memory as they once were, but the cat had come over, Dillan had started to pet it, and in mere seconds it was attacking him.

Call it what you will, but my reaction was to, all at once, grab our son up in my arms while landing the side of my foot into the cat's side, sending it a few feet away and then bolting off.

Yes, it was our fault for not shooing the cat away, but we had become slack given how friendly the pets in our apartment complex were. It's also possible I could have yelled at the cat (Trina did, to no avail) or picked it up and tossed it *gently* away, but I learned long ago not to pick up a cat behaving in such a manner. So my split-second reaction was to do what I did.

I'd do the same to any animal attacking one of my kids.

[cjolley]

...

Call it what you will, but my reaction was to, all at once, grab our son up in my arms while landing the side of my foot into the cat's side, sending it a few feet away and then bolting off.

...

I'd have done the same thing.

OK, GURM, if you define "kick" broadly enough to include shoving a cat away from your kid with the side of your foot then that fits the definition of a good reason to "kick" a cat.
But I have owned cats for 35 years and nothing like that has ever come up.

I still say it's much rarer than "everyone who has owned a cat has kicked it".

How about we agree on a definition of kicking that excludes circumstances that would call for shooting the animal were that possible.

Unless you think there is a general need to go around armed to defend yourself from rampant house cats.

[KvHagedorn]

http://nyny.essortment.com/intelligencecat_rmmk.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_intelligence

http://www.messybeast.com/intelligence.htm

Cats Using Tools?

Tool use is associated with primates and some birds, but J Justin Lancaster, PhD, believes he has witnessed tool use in a domestic cat in San Diego in 1996. He witnessed a grey domestic longhair called Sasha using an absorbent hair scrunchy to moisten her kibble (dry cat food). The scrunchies, belonging to his daughter, were kept in a drawer which Sasha learnt to open by standing on the worktop above the drawer. Sasha hooked the scrunchy with a claw, put it into her mouth and carried it into the kitchen. Sasha deliberately dropped the absorbent scrunchy into her water bowl and dabbed it with her paw. She then fished it out and dropped it onto her kibble. She then ate the kibble that had been moistened by the wet scrunchy. The repeated retrieval and use of a scrunchy as a sponge to make kibble more palatable qualifies as tool use. Sasha, adopted as a kitten in 1988, died in 2005.

[Gurm]

It's not an argument you're going to win, KvH... especially not with some of the kids some of us in here have...

When you can show me a cat that can play complex video games with multipart, changing goals... then maybe they can stack up to a single skill of some of the 3-year-olds around here.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Lets see a 3-year-old catch a bird and eat it.

[Jessterw]

Or clean his rear with his tongue

[Gurm]

Lets see a 3-year-old catch a bird and eat it.

Give him twitch reflexes and spring-loaded muscles, not to mention razor-sharp claws... and I bet it would be no problem.

[Nowhere]

I'd have done the same thing.

OK, GURM, if you define "kick" broadly enough to include shoving a cat away from your kid with the side of your foot then that fits the definition of a good reason to "kick" a cat.
But I have owned cats for 35 years and nothing like that has ever come up.

I still say it's much rarer than "everyone who has owned a cat has kicked it".

How about we agree on a definition of kicking that excludes circumstances that would call for shooting the animal were that possible.

Unless you think there is a general need to go around armed to defend yourself from rampant house cats.

Hmmm...perhaps all of the above is even more basic misunderstanding than Gurm puts it. The one where the cause is having different definitions for the term (what's the English term for this?). After all one can kick, uhmm...like a player kicks a football ball when doing penalty kick, or something more to pushing, even if far, with your foot.

[Gurm]

Hmmm...perhaps all of the above is even more basic misunderstanding than Gurm puts it. The one where the cause is having different definitions for the term (what's the English term for this?). After all one can kick, uhmm...like a player kicks a football ball when doing penalty kick, or something more to pushing, even if far, with your foot.

Again correct. I'm not talking about a kick like Pele scoring a tough shot against the opponent's goalie!