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  • Students taught to fight back



    BURLESON, Texas (AP) -- Youngsters in a suburban Fort Worth, Texas, school district are being taught not to sit there like good boys and girls with their hands folded if a gunman invades the classroom, but to rush him and hit him with everything they've got -- books, pencils, legs and arms.

    "Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success," said Robin Browne, a major in the British Army reserve and an instructor for Response Options, the company providing the training to the Burleson schools.

    That kind of fight-back advice is all but unheard of among schools, and some fear it will get children killed.

    But school officials in Burleson said they are drawing on the lessons learned from a string of disasters such as Columbine in 1999 and the Amish schoolhouse attack in Pennsylvania last week.

    The school system in this working-class suburb of about 26,000 is believed to be the first in the nation to train all its teachers and students to fight back, Browne said.

    At Burleson -- which has 10 schools and about 8,500 students -- the training covers various emergencies, such as tornadoes, fires and situations where first aid is required. Among the lessons: Use a belt as a sling for broken bones, and shoelaces make good tourniquets.

    Students are also instructed not to comply with a gunman's orders, and to take him down.

    Browne recommends students and teachers "react immediately to the sight of a gun by picking up anything and everything and throwing it at the head and body of the attacker and making as much noise as possible. Go toward him as fast as we can and bring them down."

    Response Options trains students and teachers to "lock onto the attacker's limbs and use their body weight," Browne said. Everyday classroom objects, such as paperbacks and pencils, can become weapons.

    "We show them they can win," he said. "The fact that someone walks into a classroom with a gun does not make them a god. Five or six seventh-grade kids and a 95-pound art teacher can basically challenge, bring down and immobilize a 200-pound man with a gun."
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    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    I'm on the bus through downtown ottawa and am seeing three cop cars and an ambulance infront of a mcdonalds. Five cops just left the mcds and a cop car left.

    I hope there is nothing interesting on the news tomorrow.

    Teaching kids to fight back is one thing, teaching them to keep after it even after seeing their friends gunned down.

    9 times of 10 fighting back will scare off the perp... Those who aren't expecting resistance or actually cowards for bringing in guns to a school.
    /meow
    Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
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    8GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 (4x2GB)
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    I am C4tX0r, hear me mew!

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    • #3
      and after they finish up training them wait 6 weeks or so (out of sight out of mind, ie caught off guard) have a room setup to fake damage done by a gun firing blanks/ink markers shots on the kids and see how well these kids stack up against the would be killer

      I'd like to see how they would react in this sort of simulated real life (via hidden camera) experience along with the head count of how many kids died in their attempt to take him down

      Nobody would get hurt (other than minor scrapes and bruses) and would be the perfect tool to stop this kind of Gung Ho mentality nonsense
      "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

      "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Todays kids might beat the 'practice bad guy' senseless.
        Dr. Mordrid
        ----------------------------
        An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

        I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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        • #5
          These "children" are nothing more than we were at this age. We on the other hand did have the Cold War nuclear disaster training (like that would have saved us... NOT
          "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

          "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

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          • #6
            You just can't expect little kids, particularly girls, to be as bloody-minded as James Bond, and God save us if most have to become this way.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KvHagedorn
              You just can't expect little kids, particularly girls, to be as bloody-minded as James Bond, and God save us if most have to become this way.
              You've never met my daughter Sabrina

              When she was 6 her older brother Kurt, then 8, was being roughed up on the playground by a school bully. She took it upon herself to cold-cock him on the noggin with a rock, ending the fight for stitches. The Principal almost gave her a medal because the kid was such a PITA.

              When she was 13 an older boy constantly harassed her about her 'blooming' chest. After a week or two she grabbed him by the scruff of his neck & shoved him against a locker, telling him to shut up or have his d**k pop-riveted to said locker.

              Shame on anyone that messes with her, and yet she can be so femme when she wants to be

              Daddy didn't raise a wallflower. When I taught the boys how to street fight if need be she got the exact same training, and I've never regretted it.
              Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 14 October 2006, 00:14.
              Dr. Mordrid
              ----------------------------
              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

              Comment


              • #8
                When I was in elementary school we did disaster drills. Of course, this was on a military base just prior to and during the Gulf War. I doubt most other schools, even those on bases, would have done the same, but MacDill was home to CENTCOM, SOCOM, and a certain general by the name of Norman.

                There was also all those pesky water spouts/tornados and hurricanes.

                So I think having kids prepared for possible scenarios, of which a hostage situation is one, is vital for their safety. I'm not entirely sure rushing the gunman is the 'best' tactic, but it surely isn't the worst, especially when you consider how such situations play out.
                “And, remember: there's no 'I' in 'irony'” ~ Merlin Mann

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                • #9
                  Tornado drills were/are common here in school, although I think they might do better training people to simply get out of the way of the tornado as the "cower in terror" technique seems to mature into people piling under overpasses and blocking off the roads at the slightest sign of any "ominous" clouds.

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                  • #10
                    We too had tornado drills (living in Tornado Alleys' most eastern part), but left that out for simplicity's sake

                    For extra impact lets say we introduce a new classmate (child actor) first thing in the morning and say sometime after lunch 1-2pm (when the calories hit and are getting a wee bit sleepy) have this supposed Killer storm the classroom. With the kid in on the act, complete with fake blood packs etc. Killer breaks into the room, fires a couple shots into the ceiling tiles just prior to taking aim at the new kid, ceiling material all over the place, kid laying there on the floor, blood everywhere. Kids screaming/scattering/hiding

                    Yeah we all know all too well what the result would be, but none the less love for this to be done and the results with complete video and make it a PBS documentary.

                    How many times have parents talked to their children about not talking to strangers, opening the door while they aren't home etc. Can't remember who did a news story on this but it was done receintly and the kids failed miserably dispite what they had been told and taught.
                    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

                    "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      This is really the product of bad security policy: Schools are looking more and more like correctional facilities everyday: This type of architecture is as good at keeping people out as in. Building security can work for or against you; newer buildings definitely work against easier rescue/escape venues. Quite a few schools get a Fire Code Deviation/Variance because of their construction (Brick/Mortar/Steel) which allows them to cut down on the number and type of fire exits they must have to meet code.

                      Look at it from a Terrorist's perspective: A (undefended) fortress filled with unarmed people; This is a case of "Nakatomi Plaza" writ large.

                      This is not restricted to the US, either: The Russian School hostage crisis illustrated this very well.

                      The Solution? Tear down the walls surrounding the schools, or if you insist on building fortresses, please put armed police in there.
                      Hey, Donny! We got us a German who wants to die for his country... Oblige him. - Lt. Aldo Raine

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                      • #12
                        I'm not happy at teaching children to meet violence with violence. Whereas crazy people are not unique to the USA (or Russia), you do seem to have more than your fair share. Give or take a little, the population of W. Europe is about the same as the USA but such terrible incidents as happen in the USA all too frequently are happily very rare in Europe (I can think, offhand, of only two in Europe over the last 20 years). Why? What is the difference? I believe it to be the inculcation of violence in the USA (witness: a few of those who post here) and the notion of an eye for an eye, along with, of course, the gross availability of arms. As long as this notion exists, those nations with high proportional rates of gunshot-related deaths will continue to suffer from violence manifested by and against minors, as well as adults.

                        I'm not trying to be "holier than thou". The Dunblane affair hit the UK just as much as Columbine in the US and was as equally tragic. One can never guard against madmen, but one can reduce the possibility of such events happening, but the surest way of propagating this risk from one generation to the next is to teach children violence and provide them with the means of wreaking it.

                        IMHO
                        Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                        • #13
                          On the other hand, we are capable of understanding agressive invaders for what they are..
                          Last edited by KvHagedorn; 15 October 2006, 00:27.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KvHagedorn
                            On the other hand, we are capable of understanding agressive invaders for what they are..
                            Non sequitur. In any case, what about Mexicans?
                            Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                            • #15
                              It's not that Europe and other regions don't have deadly violence on at least a par with the US, it's that their deadly violence is on a different schedule.

                              Yes, we have a 'steady state' of violence that is widely distributed and usually tied to criminality, drug use or mental illness. On the other hand history shows that in at least the case of Europe violence occurs in cultural paroxysms; the wars of the 17th & 18th centuries, WW-I, WW-II, Bosnia, Kosovo and other widespread upheavals.

                              Yes; we often get dragged in to these conflicts, lose many lives and participate in their concluding acts, but only after the more than preventable initiating events. I say preventable because in many/most cases they were, it's just that this was ignored by most all of the leadership class.

                              ex: the punitive steps taken against Germany after WW-I combined with a dedication to political process over effective action vs. he NAZI's lead directly to WW-II.

                              Over time these events are far more destructive, kill more people and more often than not set the stage for the next round of killing. Even during our participation in these foreign adventures our level of overall fatalities due to violence pales next to the many millions that die every time Europe implodes.

                              Given what we see as those 'outside the forest' events are already aligning for the next round; the internal (for now) conflict with Islamist immigrants and their progeny, the dependence on Russia for gas supplies and that eternal reliance politicical process over preventative action make me think that Europe is on another countdown.
                              Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 15 October 2006, 01:53.
                              Dr. Mordrid
                              ----------------------------
                              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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