Never have kids

[KvHagedorn]

You're certainly right Jammers.. no one is perfect, whether it's parents or kids you are talking about. However, I stand by the general principle that energetic hellions require a firm hand.. lots and lots of discipline, and first and foremost, consistency and predictability in application by both parents (if both are present). I might sound like some Prussian drill sargeant, but that's really what they need. They are like a 1000hp boat and they need a really big rudder to move them in the right direction. That rudder is you. You can be Mickey Rooney or Arnold Schwarzenegger.. it doesn't matter.. It's all a matter of attitude.

It doesn't even have to involve corporal punishment, though before they can reason well (say, before age 5 or 6), a quick smack with a wooden spoon will help condition them to respond when they don't listen. Lots of unconditional love is very important too.. many times this sort of thing is just a subconscious cry for attention.

I know, fine and good of me to preach when I don't have to live with it every day, and when I was around the kid I talked about earlier, I had plenty of time to devote. I can really sense your frustration. But it's still true.. don't try different approaches.. that's probably the worst thing you can do; above all, a kid like that needs consistency and predictability from parents. It's really simple conditioned response.

[Umfriend]

I would never have thought about getting a camera....
Not sure I'd let a 3-4 yo walk on the road (but it really depends on the situation), would have prolly walked with him, just a bit behind him but yeah, he'd go an pick it up alright (unless on a highway, y'a know that sort of thing etc (but in principle, yeah))

I agree it is easy to spoil kids with mixed signals. It's hard however to bring every kid about. Some are difficult, I got pretty lucky.

[KvHagedorn]

It was a tiny country road (zero traffic) and he threw it in the grass alongside.

[Jammrock]

However, I stand by the general principle that energetic hellions require a firm hand.. lots and lots of discipline, and first and foremost, consistency and predictability in application by both parents (if both are present). I might sound like some Prussian drill sargeant, but that's really what they need.

Easier said than done, and discipline doesn't always work. Even if both parents are consistent in rewards and punishments. This I know from experience as well. My son is either an angel or a devil, and rarely has anything in between. And if you want my honest opinion, the more I discipline him the worse he gets. It is better to involve, and be involved with, your children than anything else. Discipline should only be used as a last resort. Consistency, however, is a different matter all together.

[Jessterw]

Almost agree with you there Jamm, however, I strongly disagree that discipline should only be a last resort. Discipline, at its core, is just a set of rules of conduct. The punishment aspect doesn't have to be anything remotely harsh either. The mere act of discussing with your child why their behaviour is inappropriate can go a long way.

It's important that children know there are consequences, both good and bad, for their actions. Relating their behaviour to real-world/adult situations that you personally face can help drive the point home. Being involved with your children is definitely the best thing you can do all the time.

The wrong tact when disciplining a child though, as you mentioned, can backfire and cause more harm than good.

And as far as consistency goes, I see that as reminder that as parents we should strive to keep our reactions measured; scaling the level of the severity of that reaction. Or rather, the reaction should fit the action and should reflect previous reactions to like actions.


Edit: Just to be clear... As parents we have to often do what works, even if it goes against 'common sense' or what the rest of society is telling us we should do. Children are not just reflections of us, they are complex beings that require being treated as such. If discipline in any form doesn't work, then you have to look to alternatives. I just don't see it being a last resort from the get go.

[Dr Mordrid]

We established rules, then made it clear that the pain of not listening comes through the seat of the pants. That said we seldom had to do it past the first few 'incidents'.

[Fat Tone]

"It wasn't me"

This came in an email called "When its ok to use the F word". We've all seen the rest before but this one...takes the biscuit!

I think I'd need medication if I came home to this one!

[Kruzin]

http://forums.murc.ws/showthread.php?t=57721

[EDIT: Threads merged - JW]

[Tjalfe]

the scary part is that roughly one year from when I posted that, that is Early July, 2007, I will have a kid

[Jessterw]

No, no... scary is when you finally come to terms with the fact that your daughter is 10

[KRSESQ]

I saw this and immediately thought, "I can see my son doing this."

I DID see my son doing this! (Well, almost as bad.)

Back in my sign-painting days, when Lucas was about three, while I was taking Tony to school, he decided that Christine's ceramic Santa Claus musical would look better BLACK. So he got into my sign-paint (I THOUGHT I had it well out of his reach but he could climb like a chimpanzee before his acrophobia set in) and painted it and a large part of himself and much of the kitchen sink black.

This was oil-based paint, mind you.

I walked into the house and saw what he was doing and this silly proud grin on his face and froze, dumbstruck. Then yelled, "Christine, get out here!" (She was still in the bedroom, getting dressed.) That's when Luke must have realized that this wasn't such a good idea after all. He got this VERY scared look on his face and prepared to burst into tears at the inevitable ass-whupping.

Turns out being scrubbed down head to toe with Go-Jo was punishment enough. Christine scrubbed him and I scrubbed the musical (and took off about half the fired-on paint) and we got the mess cleaned up, except for a few black spots on the carpet, but this was green-shag mobile-home carpet so it was actually an improvement.

Luke never touched my paints or glues or other fascinating goopy stuff again. I only had to cope with the occasional broken tool as he learned not to use tools for purposes they were not designed for.

Kevin

[Dr Mordrid]

Eldest son Kurt, now 28, almost didn't survive his 5th year.

At that time were still using an inherited 50's style 4 legged dining room table for meals. Not fancy, but serviceable.

One day the wife had set it & called the family to dinner. Everyone but her had been seated safely, but when she sat down she bumped the table and it totally collapsed, sending dinner & dishes flying

The investigation later discovered all the screws for the tables legs in the heater duct of Kurt's room, along with a Philips screwdriver that had come up missing earlier in the week

How that table stayed up while she was setting it is still a mystery to me

Kurt: "I'm gonna get whooped, aren't I?"

No s**t, Sherlock

No real suprise; Kurt's now an engineer.

[Fat Tone]

LOL.

In my defence, I was on holiday when this thread was started so I missed it.

The worst we've had (so far...) is finding Luke aged 3 with a very large felt-tip marker pen in his hand, having just 'tagged' the front of a cream courdoroy armchair. It was totally out of character (he's a very smart kid and we thought he was well past that sort of thing) and quite a shock.