EPA MPG ratings recacluated..Prius big looser

[GT98]

So much for it being a super MPG car

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectEngine.jsp?year=2007&make=Toyota&model=Prius

[az]

Still better than many cars. The thing about hybrids isn't only that they use less fuel (they don't really use that much less), but that they burn it much cleaner.

Hybrids aren't the future. They're paving the way for it, though.

[Dr Mordrid]

Existing hybrids aren't the future but serial hybrids are.

Serial/plug-in hybrid drivelines can use much smaller engines, batteries or fuel cells due to the lack of a non-electric drive mode. Based on what I saw 2 weeks ago at a certain facility theirs may well be on the road much sooner than they're letting on. When they do all other hybrids, and IMO most other auto drivelines, become obsolete.

BTW: there are versions ranging from compact to SUV. If they follow through on this it'll be nothing less than a paradigm shift.

[RhinoZ]

Why does city driving have better mpg than highway??

[Dr Mordrid]

Because conventional hybrids run in electric mode at low speeds and conventional drive at highway speeds. It's all they can handle in electric mode. OTOH serial hybrids run in electric mode all the time.

This is possible because they use a larger generator & larger electric motor while dumping all the conventional drive parts, making for a much lighter driveline. They also use a much smaller engine running at a fixed speed; the speed the generator is most efficient at.

This allows for a smaller & lighter engine; for a car the size of the Volt a 30-40 hp 3 cylinder is enough, and this alone ups the mileage.

[Nowhere]

So Doc...planning to be an early adopter?

[Dr Mordrid]

After what I saw yes, but only for a serial hybrid. I'd also prefer a mini-van. Might just happen if GM buys Chrysler, which is a strong rumor here abouts.

Another benefit: power from zero rpm. Not as powerful as a Tesla Roadster, but strong. Only problem is they're almost too quiet.

BTW: did you hear that the Tesla White Star sedan will be built in Albuquerque, New Mexico? They start production in 2008 at an initial cost of $50k. 5 passenger, about the size of a BMW 5 series.

Not as fast as their roadster, but a range of ~300 miles.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Too bad all these new hybrids will be far too expensive for most people to buy so they'll have no real effect on national fuel consumption or pollution.

[az]

They will trickle down. Used vehicles will become available after a few years, and serial hybrid technology is quite straight-forward. You don't need gears, you don't need complicated mechanics to get the power from the motor to the wheels, the engine can be smaller... I think serial hybrids have the potential to be even cheaper than nowadays combustion-only cars.

[Dr Mordrid]

I'd set up a voucher program to replace the cars of low income people, who are mainly the ones driving old inefficient vehicles, with hybrids....preferably serials for the above reasons.

I'd set the voucher to pay 100% for those who can't afford to buy a car at all and 50% for those who could afford to finance the rest using a sliding scale.

I'd also provide some kind of perk (fuel tax credit etc.) if the vehicle were domestic, giving a boost to the US auto industry IF they get the lead out of their asses and get serials on the road.

Get the largest part of these cars off the road and serials on and consumption drops like a rock.

How to pay for it? We've been paying for not doing this for 40 years, but now the tech is getting mature enouigh to make it worthwhile.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Wow, I didn't realize how horrible the milage is on even some new "economy" cars: The Aveo5 SVM which has a base price of $10,560 (I think it's the cheapest new car in the US currently) get a whopping 23/33 MPG with its 1.6L 103 HP engine!

[RichL]

Just get a Golf diesel. It'll do 45+mpg, 130bhp & plenty of torque (also available with 150bhp, chippable to 190), and you can run most diesels off recycled cooking oil if it takes your fancy.

[gt40]

interesting, thou. If you look at the actual user supplied averages they are always much lower for any vehicle I tried.

[Dr Mordrid]

The difference between the lab & the real world.

[Gurm]

Or you could just buy a BMW 3-series. 30MPG pretty much clear across the boards. 26 if you drive like turbo-boy, 33 if you go rest stop to rest stop. And that's with a 2.5L inline 6 that'll knock your socks off.

My poorly-tuned 1993 with no mods got 26/29 all the time, and I drove the CRAP out of it. My brother's 1994, which he drove sedately (because he's a wussie), got over 30 most of the time.

Maybe they should just learn to build better cars, y'know?