Animals != Human Children

[Gurm]

Ok, I've got a little rant to get out of my system.

You know what I hate?

People who can't tell the difference between an animal and a human child.

You've met them. They treat their dog like it was a baby or a human child. They put little sweaters on them, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on doggie open-heart surgery.

THEY PISS ME OFF.

They especially piss me off when they're related to me.

My mom lately CANNOT talk to me about my children - her grandkids - without comparing them to her phucking chihuahua. It's a CHIHUAHUA. There is nothing that a chihuahua has EVER done that compares to the fact that her grandchild just learned to use sarcasm, or likes Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or has just learned to climb up and down the stairs and say "Daddy, change poop! Stinky! Help Jacob change stinky poop!"

Similarly, when your dog gets so ****ing out of control and old that he bites your grandkids, maybe you should ... y'know ... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. The appropriate response is NOT to say "well you should be careful not to startle Clyde, then he won't bite you!" But try to tell my ... well let's call her "Jane". She might be related to me by being married to someone who might be the parent of my spouse. Can you tell HER that the grandchild is more important than the dog? NOOOOOO.

And my phucking brother-in-law had the GALL to say that Logan is deathly afraid of Clyde (who bit him) because WE DON'T LIKE ANIMALS. No, Logan is deathly afraid of Clyde because they have NEVER restrained the dog. The dog runs the house, and when someone comes over the dog goes TEARING out of the house and BOWLS them over - adult or child alike.

Now, to be fair I hate the dog. I kick him when he gets close enough to try to pounce on Logan. So maybe my opinion is skewed. But they'll pay thousands to keep this piece of shit alive, just like the last one. The last dog had brain tumors, and had seizures a few times a week, and after each seizure she'd bite people and she couldn't walk any more, and they paid thousands for doggie phucking CHEMO. Out of pocket every damn week.

My brother in law says this current dog is the "best dog ever". Uh-huh. Just wait until he bites YOUR kid.

Mr. Gigglesworth is not a child. Your dog, cat, parakeet, marmoset, pygmy iguana, or lemur is NOT A GODDAMNED CHILD. Any human child automatically trumps your stupid phucking dog. I don't care how much a "part of the family" your dog is, he's not a person.

End. Of. Phucking. Story.

[Jessterw]

I love dogs, but I could hardly disagree with you.

With some dogs (or animals in general) their very temperament does require some guidance as to how children behave around and interact with them. Little dogs are - at least in my experiences - especially prone to snapping at unwanted advances, no matter how unintentional or well-meaning. In the same regard, larger dogs are often unaware of the size advantage they have over small children.

Case in point our dog's brother who belongs to my wife's parents - he's a lab that has the build of a rottweiler and gets so excited he runs the little ones over. He loves kids and so there's never been any concern. We just keep the little ones out of his path when he first gets let out and the older kids know to stay clear as well.

The responsibility falls both to the owner of the animal and the parents of the children who will be interacting with the animal. Obviously the very young just won't completely grasp the rules of engagement with any given animal, so there's always going to be incidents. At that point the child needs some rule reinforcement and the animal likewise.

After all is said and done, however, if the pet's owner refuses to accept a level of responsibility then there will be words and then the simple statement of fact that our we will not be returning for future visits (or they won't given the situation).

[Gurm]

Yup. It's just tough when ... well, you can't really cut off the grandparents, you know? Plus how much of an ****ole does that make me? "Well, if the dog is going to be there then ... sorry, but the kids can't stay."

'Course the dog has now bitten ALL of their grandkids, you'd think they'd f**king GET IT. Bit Julie's sister's kid a couple times, too.

[Brian Ellis]

As a dog owner, I couldn't agree with you more. Chihuahuas are not real dogs, they're inbred travesties of animalhood, the same as many toy breeds, which are inevitably aggressive (the same as many little men are often unduly aggressive). Unfortunately, because the physical damage caused is often relatively slight, their pit-bull-like aggressiveness is often ignored or even fostered by owners who "love their cute little poopsie-woopsies", without the slightest idea of what a dog-human relationship is really like.

In your case, I would say very simply to your mother that her grandchildren will visit her only if the dog has been parked elsewhere for the occasion to avoid further psychological traumatism, which may prevent your children from developing a real person-dog relationship for ever.

[Admiral]

I'm probably repeating what you guys said, but I just hate the double standard involved. When they act all "cute" everyone's saying how they're just like humans and have feelings too and spoil them to no ends, when they act bad they throw the excuse that they're animals and have instincts and you should have known better (even if you didn't provoke them), forgetting they were responsible for bringing them up and reminding them who's master.

[Gurm]

As a dog owner, I couldn't agree with you more. Chihuahuas are not real dogs, they're inbred travesties of animalhood, the same as many toy breeds, which are inevitably aggressive (the same as many little men are often unduly aggressive). Unfortunately, because the physical damage caused is often relatively slight, their pit-bull-like aggressiveness is often ignored or even fostered by owners who "love their cute little poopsie-woopsies", without the slightest idea of what a dog-human relationship is really like.

In your case, I would say very simply to your mother that her grandchildren will visit her only if the dog has been parked elsewhere for the occasion to avoid further psychological traumatism, which may prevent your children from developing a real person-dog relationship for ever.

No no, I'm talking about two separate dogs. The chihuahua is actually tame - it's a weird chocolate thing, looks almost like it has some... labrador in it or something, even though it's got papers as a purebred.

The OTHER one, the biter, is a german shorthaired pointer. BIG dog. Big dogs that bite little kids are ... dangerous.

[cjolley]

If you are talking about really biting, as opposed to nipping, then you should make it a case of "the dog or the grand kids"

I mean they need their heads examined.

[Gurm]

I'm probably repeating what you guys said, but I just hate the double standard involved. When they act all "cute" everyone's saying how they're just like humans and have feelings too and spoil them to no ends, when they act bad they throw the excuse that they're animals and have instincts and you should have known better (even if you didn't provoke them), forgetting they were responsible for bringing them up and reminding them who's master.

Yes. I'd like to remind everyone that I am NOT a dog-hater, per se. My family ALWAYS had dogs. When my first puppy died (from parvo) when I was 10, I was inconsolable for weeks. We've had danes (those are heartbreaking, they always die so young), shepherds (only one that wasn't trainable in all the years my parents had them, and she was part poodle and already a year old so that explains that), babysat my uncle's lhasa-apso's for a year (damn hair EVERYWHERE), a half-chihuahua, half-fox terrier that was stupid but loving, and a mutt named "Fred" that was part dane, part retriever, HUGE and protected me and my brothers for years.

The earliest pictures of me that aren't of me being held by my mother are of me riding on Gabriel, our half-dane half-black lab. Size of a horse, that beast was.

But each and every one of those dogs was an ANIMAL. They lived in the doghouse when we weren't around, ate dogfood, and knew from DAY ONE that their place in the pecking order was at the BOTTOM. They knew damn well that the pack was led by my father, that I was beta male, etc. Every last one of them. The one that we couldn't convince of that? We gave to someone who had more time to break her.

And when our dogs got sick enough that their quality of life was effected? We put them down mercifully. No quibbling, no doggy chemo, no lifesaving operations that cost $10k.

And the one dog that actually bit someone other than to protect? Away he went. No arguing, end of story.

[NetSnake]

one thing that dogs and children have in common is that they can be spoiled. a proper punishment of the dog when he tried to attack someone the first time would probably prevent any further attacks...

[Dr Mordrid]

Yup.

[degrub]

gotta get the right alpha dog in the pack.....

[WxDude]

I agree with you completely Gurm. My wife and I have a friend with 2 dogs and 2 cats. He has
compared them to my twin boys several times. I drives us crazy every time he does it. Pets are
not the equal of kids.

I know it isn't fair to cut their grandparents off from their grandkids, but it may take something
that drastic to make them realize that the dog is a hazard and not some cute little member of
the family who can do no wrong. It's a matter of your kids' safety, and in my book that trumps
all other concerns. Maybe only allow visits at your house and state the dog is not invited. That
way it is them not you keeping the grandparents away.

I hope you can work something out. Good Luck!

[Strahd]

You're absolutely right Gurm. My inlaws were up for the weekend and were going to watch our three kids on the Saturday night as we attended a wedding. So they brought their ****ing poodle. A 10-12 year white rat with rotting teeth. They actually have to mash his food for him so that he can eat it. EVEN IF IT"S CANNED FOOD.

So they bring this poodle into my house, last time he came he pissed on my bedroom floor.
My mother in law picks the dog up and puts it on her lap, for safe keeping away from the kids.

My youngest who is 19 months old comes running down the hallway towards her grandmother. She gets to the couch as fast as a 19 month old can move and the poodle, with a ferocious poodle snarble takes a few snaps at my daughter, point blank.

Needless to say, a 19 month old standing and a poodle sitting on someone's lap, well their faces are at precisely the same height.
My mother in law laughs and says it's not his fault, he's not used to kids.

Let me tell you, had there been contact, they would have needed to spend some pretty good money to keep that dog breathing.

[Gurm]

You're absolutely right Gurm. My inlaws were up for the weekend and were going to watch our three kids on the Saturday night as we attended a wedding. So they brought their ****ing poodle. A 10-12 year white rat with rotting teeth. They actually have to mash his food for him so that he can eat it. EVEN IF IT"S CANNED FOOD.

So they bring this poodle into my house, last time he came he pissed on my bedroom floor.
My mother in law picks the dog up and puts it on her lap, for safe keeping away from the kids.

My youngest who is 19 months old comes running down the hallway towards her grandmother. She gets to the couch as fast as a 19 month old can move and the poodle, with a ferocious poodle snarble takes a few snaps at my daughter, point blank.

Needless to say, a 19 month old standing and a poodle sitting on someone's lap, well their faces are at precisely the same height.
My mother in law laughs and says it's not his fault, he's not used to kids.

Let me tell you, had there been contact, they would have needed to spend some pretty good money to keep that dog breathing.

Yup. Next time the dog bites one of the kids, be it mine or my sister-in-law's... the dog is going down. I don't have a perfect relationship with my in-laws, but they're going to have to deal with it.