Honour killing???

[Brian Ellis]

An 18 year old Italian girl tells her Mom that she has missed her period for 2 months. Very worried, the mother goes to the drugstore and buys a pregnancy kit. The test result shows that the girl is pregnant. Shouting, cursing, crying, the mother says, "who was the pig that did this to you? I want to know!" The girl picks up the phone and makes a call. Half an hour later, a Ferrari stops in front of their house. A mature and distinguished man with gray hair and impeccably dressed in an Armani suit steps out of the of the Ferrari and enters the house. He sits in the living room with the father, mother, and the girl and tells them: "Good morning, your daughter has informed me of the problem. I can't marry her because of my personal family situation but I'll take charge. I will pay all costs and provide for your daughter for the rest of her life. Additionally, if a girl is born, I will bequeath a Ferrari, a beach house, 2 retail stores, a townhouse, a beach front villa, and a $2,000,000 bank account. If a boy is born, my legacy will be a couple of factories and a $4,000,000 bank account. If twins, they will receive a factory and $2,000,000 each. However, if there is a miscarriage, what do you suggest I do?" At this point, the father, who had remained silent, places a hand firmly on the man's shoulder and tells him: "You'z a-go f**k her again."

[ND66]

Lol! :d :d :d


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[ZokesPro]

Hehe.

[schmosef]

funny joke. but i don't understand how the thread title is connected to the joke. care to explain?

[Admiral]

Normally the father would have killed the guy in said culture ?

[schmosef]

an honour killing would mean that the girl would be killed.

[schmosef]

for example: link

[Brian Ellis]

Gawd! You can't even keep anti-Muslim politics out of a joke thread. In Italy (particularly Sicily and Sardinia, but also in French Corsica and Greek Crete), and some other S. European countries, it would be the bloke that would be killed, this death often being the start of a long-standing vendetta between the families. If I remember correctly, French Law (le code napoléonique) treated such murders very leniently until about 1970 when crime passionnel reverted to assassinat. I don't know what the legal situation is in other countries.

[schmosef]

Don't lay your bullshit on me.

from wikipedia:

An honor killing is a murder, nearly exclusively of a woman, who has been perceived as having brought dishonor to her family. Such killings are typically perpetrated by the victim's own relatives and/or community and unlike a crime of passion or rage-induced killing, it is usually planned in advance.

...

Human Rights Watch defines "honor killings" as follows:

Honor crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce — even from an abusive husband — or (allegedly) committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.

There's a recent thread here where the issue of honour killing was brought up as a slight against Islam and I was the one who interjected to say that honour killings was not a tenet of Islam.

Still think you used the term correctly?

[az]

Calm down.

[Brian Ellis]

Yes, I used the term correctly within the context. I suppose you think that Wikipedia is infallible, especially when the article has an anti Muslim bias? I see nothing there about European honour killings, which certainly used to be rife, albeit less so today.

As one example, you could read Feuding, Conflict and Banditry in Nineteenth-Century Corsica by Stephen Wilson where it it states quite clearly that sexual misconduct against a family's womenfolk would frequently lead to the murder of the perp, rsulting in a perpetual vendetta between the two families. Dishonour (vergogna) was the worst disgrace within a Corsican family and the term "honour killing" is used in this context within the book. In a few cases, to redeem a dishonour, a family would even deliver the perp to the wronged family. As the girls, by virtue of their pregnancy, were no longer marriageable, they were often sent to a convent.

This notion of killing the deflowerer of a daughter or a sister as a matter of honour probably exists to this day in some remote rural areas of Europe. The term "shotgun wedding" is a slang expression to denote the forcing of a perp to redeem the family's honour by marrying the pregnant daughter, or be killed. Although their religion forbids killing, Anabaptists often achieve the same end by shunning he who dishonourably gets a girl in the family way.

Sorry, but this is a very old European tradition. I agree that if you Google "honour killing", most of the responses today will centre on Islamic cases, but this is only because it is symptomatic of the current anti-Islamic paranoia in the western world.

I'm not asking this to be provocative but out of curiosity, especially with regard to the unique notion of matrilineal descent, but what would the traditional reaction be in a Jewish family if the daughter were "unexpectedly" preggers a) by a Jew and b) by a Goy?

[schmosef]

I suppose you think that Wikipedia is infallible

I suppose you think that you are? I chose a source that you've used here many times.

especially when the article has an anti Muslim bias?

No such bias exists. The article clearly ascribes the phenomenon to pre-islamic culture. If you see some bias, I challenge you to elaborate!

I see nothing there about European honour killings, which certainly used to be rife, albeit less so today.

As one example, you could read Feuding, Conflict and Banditry in Nineteenth-Century Corsica by Stephen Wilson...

The point is, did they call them "honour killings"? Doubtful. They might have been "for honour", but they didn't use that term. And, unless they had Ferrari's in 19th century Corsica, your attempt to draw a connection is grasping at best.

Personally, I think you used the term out of some misplaced sense of egalitarianism. Whatever you think might have been true in the past, is certainly not true today. And all cultures are not created equal. The joke had a contemporary context, the title was inappropriate as far as I could tell. I asked you to clarify. It's interesting that you instead chose to play the islamophobe card.

I'm not asking this to be provocative but out of curiosity, especially with regard to the unique notion of matrilineal descent, but what would the traditional reaction be in a Jewish family if the daughter were "unexpectedly" preggers a) by a Jew and b) by a Goy?

The reaction would depend more on cultural influence and regional norms than religion.

[schmosef]

Calm down.

how calm would you be if you asked me a fair and legitimate question and instead of responding i chose to insinuate that you were a nazi sympathizer?

[az]

I meant both of you.

[ND66]

Here we go again…… .

You know something? It’s sad, it’s very sad that we try to make today’s world politically correct.
We want to correct it so much that common sense is no longer necessary.

Joke is a joke, period.

If you ask for an explanation and you get one, what more can you ask for?

On this joke topic, I know that this did exist:

“……… forcing of a perp to redeem the family's honour by marrying the pregnant daughter, or be killed.”

There is something you need to understand, in those European Medieval Times most people were so poor, PRIDE was the only thing they had left. And yes, they would kill for that.

And how did they call it? I’m not sure if Brian was 100% right or not, but why would I care, it was used in a joke after all.

So maybe he wasn’t 100% or even 50% politically correct, the punchline is NOT in the title, it would spoil the joke, wouldn’t it?


And for the side I’m on???????


I’m with Az, calm down. Please.


I came from a Forum that arguing about stupid programs left that Forum empty right now. Sh_t load of wonderful and knowledgeable members left because any post started was used to find double meaning of just about anything and every post turned out to be a big brawl. To a point everyone said screw it, I’m out of here.

So, keep it up, let make everyone very comfortable around here, and let see who’ll be left in here in a year or so…… .


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