A creative moment of your time please.

[Umfriend]

Yes, it was restricted to those who have a backyard but was also expanded to every person when my position was presented (incorrectly). Anyway. Brian, do you grow all your food yourself, did you grow food when you ran your business and how much time does it take you?

[Brian Ellis]

I have been growing SOME food since 1970. No, I don't grow all our veggies but probably 75%-80% of our fruit (oranges, grapefruit, pomelos, lemons, mandarines, clementines, peaches, apricots, nectarines, figs, grapes); the only ones we consistently buy are local bananas and mangoes, because they won't grow at his altitude. We use two large chest freezers to bridge the gaps (only yesterday I did a job I really HATE, juiced about 60 grapefruit to make ~ 20 l of a very tasty juice that will keep us going for a few months. Will have another similar session in a couple of weeks). I don't grow any cereals nor meat. Time taken? Very variable. A few minutes/day harvesting on average. Perhaps 40 or 50 hours/year for all other tasks.

My food is organic, but not in the sense of the scam sold in shops. I use an absolute minimum of chemicals (compost for the veggie beds and fruit), one treatment/year of fungicide on grapes and deciduous fruit trees, 2 or 3 treatments of insecticides on deciduous trees (I hate finding half a worm in a peach!), 1 on citrus trees (Mediterranean fruit fly is a REAL PEST). No slug/snail bait (have a dog!).

[Umfriend]

First, I now see that Liz may have simply meant that more people should grow something. I took her to mean a far more extreme point. If I was mistaken I apologise. Shit happens. I have no problems with people growing food as a hobby for their self gratification. I don;t think it'll make a big difference in the grand scheme of things but it probably will to the experience these people get from their own grown food.

Anyway, Brian, fruit is different from most, if not all, vegetables and grains in the sense that harvesting is almost all to be done after the trees or bushes have been planted. With the sowing, plowing and harvesting of a whole years' consumption of those (and your livestock if you eat meat), a lot more time and capital would be required, would you not agree?

[Brian Ellis]

Not entirely. Many veggies produce far more than fruit trees per m² of land. One tree = typically ~25 m² and that land has to be amortised. If it gives, say, 25 kg of fruit, 1 kg/m² is a much lower yield than I get from tomatoes, aubergines, courgettes, potatoes etc. Then consider that a fruit tree may yield nothing for the first 2-3 years after planting (6 years in the case of my apricot). Fruit trees cost a lot more than a packet of seeds in initial capital and cost more in labour and materials, to boot (pruning, spraying, harvesting, irrigation).

[Umfriend]

Those are good points. I do not consider "land" the same as "capital" but anyway. I was pointing at investments in irragation systems, ploughing and harvesting machinery etc. Tomatoes, aubergines, courgettes, potatoes etc. al need to be resown each year, no? My main concern is that with little capital investment, growing food becomes a labour intensive industry so that a lot of labour needs to be redirected from capital-insentive high-value-added industries to agriculture. But again, it may well be we're discussing different things. I am talking about a massive movement to consumption of self grown food to a large extent.