Is the Apocalypse apon us ?

[Dr Mordrid]

Cat now up to +365 points. Must have SuperBalls in his ass

Like us buying a $220,000 house for $140,000 the bargain hunters are coming out of the woodwork.

IMO it's 30% likely to evaporate on its own.

[lowlifecat]

dead cats eh? you're all be learning soon! *evil laughter*

[ALBPM]

5. Make Barney Frank take speech lessons

He may have plenty of time to do that in a Federal prison for his deals with Fannie Mae Arrrrr!!!1

[Kruzin]

He may have plenty of time to do that in a Federal prison for his deals with Fannie Mae Arrrrr!!!1

Wow, Pauly, yer still alive?
Ain't heard much outta you lately
How's the family?

[Helevitia]

Summed up in a single word:

Greed

Greed of borrowers living beyond their means
Greed of lenders not ensuring sufficient equity on their loans
Greed of incompetent executives with obscene incomes
Greed of even more incompetent ex-executives who require golden parachutes
Greed of politicians who have vested interests, some corrupt
Greed of oil producers/companies making obscene profits

Now it's my turn to be greedy, but my greed will not be satisfied. I have investments in a diversified portfolio, some in US and UK equities which have suffered the double whammy of lost value AND poorer exchange rates, some in various greedy "safe and sure blue chip" bank stocks whose value is now 13% of what we paid for them. Overall, the current value of our investments (not counting cash in bank accounts in several countries) was down by about 35%, as at yesterday morning, probably >40% today. This was set aside in case of emergencies, such as expensive medical treatment or care, which may strike either (or both) of us. Who is going to provide us, old retirees who have worked hard to be independent, with a golden parachute if we need it in a life-or-death emergency? I feel bitter because the US House of Representatives have exacerbated my personal loss situation, through their failure to parachute the US Institutions with a SECURED LOAN to help rectify the situation engendered partly by their own greed, not a gift, just a loan. We pray to God that He takes us rapidly rather than suffer because we can no longer pay for the care we budgeted for in our old age.

I feel your pain, Brian.

I am also down around 30% and though I am only 36, I have health concerns and one day I could be prematurely retired. I am also enraged at the greed that is allowed to happen and people like me who buy a 1200sq ft home in the bay area because I am sensible while the people around me buy 2000 sq ft homes, take out loans for 50K SUV's and basically not save for retirement, now I have to bail all of those ****ers out with my tax dollars. **** them all!

I am so sick of our corrupt government and how special interests is the name of the game around any corner your turn. How you can buy your way into whatever the **** you want. What bullshit!

After seeing how McCain's agenda is more about how he tries to calculate becoming president instead of putting the people first (Palin(she is a joke, she has no clue about anything outside of Alaska), suspending his campaign in the name of the bailout , etc...), I hope to god that Obama can do something for us. If he fails than we truly are ****ed.

[WxDude]

I am FURIOUS at the fact that we are having to bail out people who have made bad decisions.
I've worked my a** off to get where I am, making sure that I didn't over extend myself and my
family, paying my credit cards off every month and not getting stuff even though I wanted it. And
now we have to bail everyone who was either greedy or decided that they were entitled to
something they couldn't afford and that they shouldn't have to sacrifice. It's just isn't fair. On top
of that, I do not believe that we will EVER make back the 700 Billion that they want to hand out.
I don't want to have the government bail anyone out (heck, I was ticked off at the Fannie Mae/
Freddie Mac bailout and that is relatively small beans compared to this). I don't want my
government in the business of bailing out everyone. But something needs to be done.

So, that said, I have a question.

As I understand it, the problem is that all of these banks are in trouble because the properties
that back these securities that they have been trading have dropped in value. This means that
the banks no longer have the cash available to them like they used to because they are basically
upside down on these mortgages and they can not sell them. And since they have limited cash,
they don't want to lend to other banks, people, businesses. Correct?

Instead of the government just buying these things up (at a premium), why doesn't the
government just pay down the principles on all mortgages (not just the bad ones) and
reamortize them so everyone has lower mortgage payments? This way, all home owners
will have lower monthly payment (which will give more disposable income to everyone). These
securities will not be upside down (or as upside down as they are) which will ease the
pressure on the banks which should ease the frozen credit markets. Instead of the typical
trickle-down response which is what got us here in the first place, this would be a bottom up
fix. It would get the relief to all of the people, and not just the people who got us into this
problem in the first place. And it would have the benefit of getting people into a place that they
could spend money which would lift the entire economy. Why would this not work (other than
the obvious point that it would not help the people who bought off the Congress/President)?

Like I said, I don't want to give a bailout to the people who caused this, but why not help
everyone directly instead of helping it at the top and hope it will trickle it's way down?

If this is just a little too political or anyone is insulted, let me apologize in advance. I've just
been wondering about this since this whole fiasco arose.

[Gurm]

I feel your pain even though THIS time I'm not the one screwed. When the tech bubble popped, I lost about $50k in supposedly "safe" stocks. Oops. At this point I don't have any serious investments.

But here I am... I'm 33, my wife is 35. We have 2 kids and a 3rd on the way. We have two old cars, rent a house, and carry over $100k in student loan between the two of us. I make a fair sum each year, and yet can't make the current student loan payment schedule. There's just no way I can afford $1000/mo. on TOP of the $1600/mo. rent - and I can't even begin to imagine taking on a $2500/mo. mortgage!

So I haven't been irresponsible - at least not lately - and I see no way to get ahead, certainly no way to plan for retirement. Then you have people making less than me buying $400k houses.

But to be honest, we're in such a nutty market that $400k doesn't even buy you a lot of house! The house we just moved out of went onto the market at $379k, and it was probably 1000 sq. ft. with a finished basement and tiny one-car garage. That's ridiculous. I know Jammrock bought a house recently that's 1.5-1.75x as large for HALF the money. It's insanity here, all driven by unfair house pricing, which in turn is driven by the greed of the lending institutions.

Ugh.

Will it all fix itself? Who knows. All I know is that the lawmakers are, for a change, listening to us.

[Umfriend]

WxDude, I'd like to go into your post but stay away from politics for fear of becoming banned for life here.

Anyway, I think I'll be able to explain why your solution won't work (and in fact does have some consequences that you probably will not like). But boy, is it an interesting idea!

[cjolley]

You know I wondered about something like this a few days ago.
But, what is the outstanding mortgage principle balance in the US?
I have no idea except that it's probably pretty big.
I'm not at all sure 700B would buy it down enough to make a difference.

I wonder where you could find a statistic like that.

[Evildead666]

Europe is no better.
A lot of people here live off of credits....
They get one credit, for 3-5 years, and before that one runs out, get another to cover that plus some, etc, etc and on it goes....

I have no credit. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it.
Not because i can't, but because I am sh*t with money anyway, and like to know exactly how much cash I have...

I see so many 4x4's, brand new, F*ing PORSCHE 4x4s for gods sake....WHEN THE HELL ARE THEY GOING TO GO OFFROAD EH ?

A LOT of people have bought new cars, and they are all on credit.
I bought a second hand car, for a grand (1000 pounds). Its an old Passat (the same engine as the first golf gti )...

No bail out. my 2c, but i'm not the one voting...

[WxDude]

Umfriend,

Please feel free to PM me. I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say.

- Wx

[WxDude]

Ok, take this with a LARGE barrel of salt.

According to US Census 1995 calculations, they estimated there would be 103 Million households
in 2000 and 115 Million by 2010. So roughly, 113 Million right now. These are households, not
mortgages/houses. So the number is probably lower, but even if we went with the 103 Million
number, the $700,000,000,000 bailout would only cover ~$6800 on the mortgages. Not much
of a difference.

[Jammrock]

The number I heard was $10,000 per home for the bailout.

[ALBPM]

Wow, Pauly, yer still alive?
Ain't heard much outta you lately
How's the family?

Me and the wifey are doing fine!!!

I've just been working to hard this year... LOL!!!

[Umfriend]

WxDude, two PMs otw.