We SAW Chryslers electric minivan!!!!

[Dr Mordrid]

Researchers at the Argonne National Lab tested 4 plug-in hybrid configurations, ascertaining the fuel economy they would get using real-world driving conditions.

The configurations studied were a 4 kwh and 8 kwh plug-in split hybrid (Prius like) and a 12 kwh and 16 kwh EREV hybrid (GM Voltec and Chrysler ENVI-like). The test cycle was based on data taken from 100 actual Kansas City, MO drivers in 2005.

The EREV would operate electrically from 30% to 90% state of charge (SOC), amounting to 7.2 kwh in the 12 kwh model - slightly less than Voltec (that said the Voltec can operate outside the normal SOC range if necessary, using more of its current 16 kwh capacity)

The split hybrids operated as a fixed ratio power split between the ICE and electric motor.

The mpg numbers were obtained using the EPA's gasoline/electric equivalency formula, which is what will be used on the EPA mileage stickers for EV's.

Results:

Split 4 kWh: 71.9 mpg

Split 8 kWh: 101.4 mpg

Series 12 kWh: 156.8 mpg

Series 16 kWh: 191.2 mpg

[Brian Ellis]

Those figures are complete nonsense and do not agree with other sources. I don't know whether this is due to the test protocol or the EPA going off the rails (not for the first time). When I have a moment, I'll try to find chapter and verse to substantiate my statement, but I'm rather busy just now (granddaughter and BF visiting).

[Brian Ellis]

To be going on with, a recent US Gov report is not all roses for plug-in vehicles (EV or HEV)

[Dr Mordrid]

Brian;

those Argonne numbers aren't overall fuel economy but the gasoline equivalent mileage in electric mode given x price of gasoline and y cost of electricity/kwh. That is how EV's are going to be rated.

Looks like EREV's like Voltec, the Chrysler ENVI minivan etc. will get a dual rating; the first running in range extender mode (small ICE turns the generator which runs the electric motor & charges the battery) and an EV mode rating, from which a composite rating will be obtained. The composite rating for Volt looks to be around 100 mpg.

Also; there are two basic kinds of hybrids and several subtypes, so the term "true hybrid" needs qualification.

Your Prius uses a split mode - the electric motor(s) assist a normal ICE drive line, mostly at lower speeds. Two-mode hybrids are an improvement on this plus they can be retrofitted into comparable existing vehicle designs.

There is also the series hybrid like the Volt and other EREV's. In them the ICE assists a full time electric drive, but only when the battery runs low or its under a heavy load (towing etc). Otherwise it's an EV.

Two very different birds, but both are recognized as hybrids by governments and the SAE.

[DukeP]

Hmm. I dont really see any point in those hybrids numbers?

Perhaps its me.

My friend drives around 120 miles a day as a commuter. He drives some kind of Peugot? A turbo diesel. He averages 65 mpg and according to his computer this is at speeds averaging 100 km/h.

My 4x4 suzuki swift averages around 45 mpg as I drive it. I dont drive as fast tho - no highways around where I live.

So. Whats the point of hybrids again?

~~DukeP~~

[dZeus]

pollute the environment with a 'clear conscience'?

like giving money to the third world so you can be better off without having to feel bad about it