Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Obama favors the 'Deep Space Option" for US space future

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Obama favors the 'Deep Space Option" for US space future

    Looks like the White House is leaning towards the Augustine Commissions Option #7 , also known as "The Deep Space Option", with a few tweaks.

    If this is true than there will be a jailbreak from low Earth orbit and the NewSpace companies will be leading the charge.

    Launchers cut: Ares I (Orion's crew launcher) and Ares V HLV (HLV = heavy lift vehicle) - both way too expensive and in the case of Ares I possibly dangerous to its own crews.

    Shuttle cut: flights end in 2011 (perhaps 1 extra flight)

    Low Earth Orbit crew: $2.5 billion for commercial crew (SpaceX's Dragon, Bigelow's Orion Lite, SpaceDev's DreamChaser spaceplane etc.)

    ISS end of mission: extension to 2020 or beyond with a possible commercial takeover of ISS operations

    New destination: Deep Space. Under consideration are orbital survey missions to Mercury and Venus and possible landings on near Earth asteroids and Mars' moon Phobos.

    If they're serious about these long missions they're going to need habitats and a deep space drive. Bigelow's expandable habitats and Ad Astra's VASIMR plasma drive are naturals. They'll have to get serious about nuclear reactors for spacecraft too, though solar will be OK for powering VASIMR in the inner solar system.

    Orion lunar spaceship: expensive and may be axed in favor of a less costly commercial deep space vehicle. Perhaps a combo of a less expensive and lighter crew-return-only capsule, a Bigelow habitat and a VASIMR drive section with connecting bits.

    New HLV launcher: commercial - possibly the Atlas V Phase 2. Phase 2 would widen the Atlas V core from 3.8 to 5 meters using 1 or 2 RD-180 engines/core. The Heavy version would use 3 of them side by side in the first stage like the Delta IV Heavy. Centaur 2nd stage with its diameter increased from 3 to 5 meters and 2 or 4 engines. Can loft 75 mT in its top configuration. Phase 3 would take that to 100 mT by using 5 cores (!!)
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 22 August 2009, 02:56.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    I'm all in for nuclear reactors in space atm, since we have nothing comparable yet.
    They just had on the bbc website the new Nuclear submarine, which goes for 25 years without refueling !!!!!

    These people are used to 6-12 months inside the little shell, and such a "submarine in space" concept would be feasible.
    Just have to get them used to a lot longer, and have a larger payload of food, or a different payload of food....

    Good to see that we're looking far rather than next door.
    But, and a big BUT, we should have a launch/refuel facility on the moon or in a Lagrange point for the deep space vehicles....
    PC-1 Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, 3800X, Asus B450M-PRO mATX, 2x8GB B-die@3800C16, AMD Vega64, Seasonic 850W Gold, Black Ice Nemesis/Laing DDC/EKWB 240 Loop (VRM>CPU>GPU), Noctua Fans.
    Nas : i3/itx/2x4GB/8x4TB BTRFS/Raid6 (7 + Hotspare) Xpenology
    +++ : FSP Nano 800VA (Pi's+switch) + 1600VA (PC-1+Nas)

    Comment


    • #3
      Fuel depots, Lagrange point missions etc. are part of what they're talking about. Setting up fuel depots at LEO and L points opens up a large number of mission possibilities. It might take a while, but with Bigelow habs being real (small ones have been up for years with no problems and a manned Sundancer goes up in 2011) there is even talk of a Super-Dragon or Dragon 2 capable of deep space missions.
      Dr. Mordrid
      ----------------------------
      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

      Comment


      • #4
        So I get none of this but given the complaints against NASA over the past years here, is this a good direction Obama is taking?
        Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
        [...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen

        Comment


        • #5
          Presuming he's actually going this way, and all the signals are that this is the case, it all depends on the specifics. This was obviously a trial balloon so they could see how the space community and politicians would react and what alterations would be suggested - and there's been plenty of those.

          This appears to be the choice of Dr. Sally Ride (1st American female astronaut and physicist) and NASA's new administrator former USMC General Charlie Bolton (Ret.), a former test pilot and highly respected in the space community. Top notch people.

          I'd say it depends on the level funding and what commercial entities end up in the mix. The key indicators....

          SpaceX's Dragon is pretty much a lock for LEO taxi service but a backup would be a good idea. The leading candidate is Bigelow/ULA's Orion Lite. The outer form of NASA's Orion and its pressure hull but stripped down inside for an LEO only mission. Outside shot: SpaceDev's DreamChaser spaceplane, an evolution of NASA's HL-20. All of the above should be launch-able on either the ULA Atlas V or the SpaceX Falcon 9. Redundancy is good.

          If they pick ULA to man rate the Atlas V and develop the Atlas V Phase 2 as a heavy lift booster with the SpaceX Falcon 9e Heavy (e adds its recently announced cryogenic 2nd stage and a stronger core engine) as the medium lift they're going the right way. Atlas V Phase 2 could lift about 70+ mT in its highest level config and F9He about 35-40 mT in its. Falcon 9e will lift about 30+ mT. This gives a nice, continuous range of lift options ranging from the base Atlas V to the F9 then the F9H and F9H+ and topping out with the Atlas V P2 for heavy lifts.

          The deep space reentry vehicle could well be the Orion already under development but a monkey wrench could get tossed in the form of a Dragon 2: a deep space version of the Dragon. It's already designed with a heat shield material capable of 30,000 mph re-entries and changes to the hull could add the radiation shielding. Add a service module and you're there.

          Cost will be a big factor, and SpaceX developed Dragon on a shoestring at about $100 million. NASA's spent billions on Orion and has yet to cut metal on a real LEO/ISS version bird - that's still several years out. Dragon flies early next year. They started about the same time

          The VASIMR plasma rocket (think: impulse drive) appears to be a favorite of Gen. Bolton as well; in his confirmation hearing he described its inventor former astronaut Franklin Chang-Diazas as "his hero". Nice friend to have.

          VASIMR's use would be for deep space missions. In the inner solar system VASIMR can be solar powered and used for lunar tugs, refueling fuel depots at the L points and inner planet flybys. For Mars a nuclear reactor of about 12 MWe would be necessary for a manned mission, and the techs are available. Self regulating uranium nitride reactors that size can be made less than the size of a hot tub.

          If they use Bigelow's expandable habitats in long duration spacecraft it's another good sign. These offer much enhanced micro-meteoroid and radiation protection vs. the ISS and NASA aluminum tin cans; part of their structure is a large number of Kevlar and Vectran layers (both projectile resistant) and they can be fitted with water blankets as radiation shielding (the hydrogen in water is a very good shield). An excellent tech. If this had been used to build ISS it would have gone up in 1/10th the time at 1/10th the cost and had even more internal volume.
          Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 23 August 2009, 11:47.
          Dr. Mordrid
          ----------------------------
          An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

          I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

          Comment

          Working...
          X