IMF head/French politician arrested in NYC

[Dr Mordrid]

A suicidal turn can, and often does, indicate the deep remorse of a guilty mind.

Wonder at which end the call was refused? The jail does not have unrestricted calling, just certain hours on certain days according to the prisoners last name. OTOH the IMF may not be too receptive to a call from someone who has embarrassed them so many times.

[Dr Mordrid]

Going to resign -

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/19/imf-strauss-kahn-submits-his-resignation/

The International Monetary Fund says its embattled managing director, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, intends to resign, effective immediately, as he faces sexual assault charges in New York.

The IMF’s executive board released a letter from the French executive late Wednesday in which he denied the allegations lodged against him but said that with “great sadness” he felt compelled to resign. He said he was thinking of his family and that he wanted to protect the IMF.
>

[Dr Mordrid]

Guess the evidence came in - the citizens Grand Jury met today and indicted him.

Link....

[Brian Ellis]

At least he is now out on bail with strict conditions ($6M + electronic bracelet + house arrest at his daughter's apartment + 4 visitors max at a time + armed guard). This could have been granted at the first hearing.

There are angry noises here about the "perp walk", see http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/seealso/2...r_perp_wa.html - this is considered prejudicial to a fair trial because it carries a psychological message that he is guilty (in cuffs, therefore being punished) to the public including his future jurors. Such photos/footage are forbidden in much of Europe. The very name is prejudicial, as the victim has lost his presumption of innocence by the use of "perp" (perpetrator).

[Dr Mordrid]

1) this isn't Europe. That said, not every police station has a private/enclosed loading area, so transportation of a prisoner through a public space (which reporters are free to occupy) is often unavoidable. Ex: from station to a vehicle, and from the vehicle to the courthouse. Courthouses also frequently lack private entramces. Absent a Trek transporter....

2) the judge in the first hearings are more likely to remand (no bail) pending the indictment, especially when the damned fool tries to leave the jurisdiction

Also; a famous NY madame who catered to VIP's has come forward and stated he was a customer, and that he had been overly rough with her escorts. One of her other customers was the former Governor of NY, Eliot Spitzer.

[Brian Ellis]

1) this isn't Europe. That said, not every police station has a private/enclosed loading area, so transportation of a prisoner through a public space (which reporters are free to occupy) is often unavoidable. Ex: from station to a vehicle, and from the vehicle to the courthouse. Courthouses also frequently lack private entramces. Absent a Trek transporter....

Non sequitur: In Europe, few courts have private entrances, as they are, on average, older than the US equivalents. In the countries where it is forbidden, no media would ever publish the perp walk because it could result in a no trial and/or contempt of court.

1)..
2) the judge in the first hearings are more likely to remand (no bail) pending the indictment, especially when the damned fool tries to leave the jurisdiction

"damned", yes. Whether he is guilty or not, he is already damned by a judicial system that favours the prosecution (apart from the perp walk and other media attention, cameras in courts, publication of sub judice data, elected attorneys, nominated judges, lack of presumption of innocence etc.) Even in the UK, the judicial system is much tighter than in the US. In many countries, it is illegal to publish the names of people who are awaiting trial or have not been convicted. The media would call John Doe as either J.D. or, in some places, John D, to avoid his name becoming known if he is acquitted.

Also; a famous NY madame who catered to VIP's has come forward and stated he was a customer, and that he had been overly rough with her escorts. One of her other customers was the former Governor of NY, Eliot Spitzer.

Are brothels legal in NY? If not, her testimony is not admissible. Escort? Don't you mean prostitute or whore? Don't prostitutes, by the nature of their trade, have to take the rough with the smooth? In any case, the madame cannot give evidence because it is hearsay, but she has apparently further prejudiced the case against DSK by publishing this "evidence". And what is the relevance of Mr Spitzer, other than to show a moral reprehensibility by US standards?

Who was it who said that justice should not only be done but seem to be done?

[Jessterw]

"The sky is blue."
"I don't like that the sky is blue."
"Well it is blue and we like it that way."
"It shouldn't be blue."

Thought I should summarize the thread thus far.


The legal system here in the US is broken in may ways, but it largely still works. Unfortunately, we have allowed freedom of the press to mutate into the media frenzy of irresponsible and inaccurate reporting that accompanies every investigation, arrest, detention, and trial of note. It can certainly ruin lives.

But that's just the way it is here and now.

[Dr Mordrid]

Glad you brought up freedom of the press. It all flows from the First Amendment to the Constitution, part if the Bill of Rights, which has been interpreted quite literally;

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In many countries they do have prior restraint codified into law, but here the wouldn't last 5 minutes in a federal court save for very limited cases; certain witnesses, minors and rape/sexual assault victims. In those limited cases info can be witheld. Otherwise, there is no expectation of privacy.

In terms of perp walk or mug shot photos; save for the above restrictions photos = speech. Also; mug shot photos are public records, as are arrest and arraignment documents, and therefore subject to the state and federal Freedom Of Information Acts (FOIA). Such info has to be released to the press on request. Certan redactions in the records can be made, but otherwise....

Perp walk photos are taken in publc spaces during normal transportation, and as such courts have held there is usually no expectation of privacy, and as noted most all prior restraint of the press is a no-no. If said perp doesn't want his face shown, they can always pull a garment (jacket, hoodie etc) over their face and the guards will guide them.

As to the madame; that would be Kristin Davis, and she was convicted last year for her activities. Since she has been quite open about the goings on in her agency. She also ran for Governor of New York in the 2010 elections, getting ~21,000 votes in the primary.

[dZeus]

.... At the time of the offence, the age of consent in France was 12 and, because the girl was 13, this was not criminal and the clause of dual criminality (2 on the list above) could not be evoked. This automatically disculped him from extradition and from trial by a French court.
...

When I told said information to a French national, she wouldn't believe me. I looked it up, and found that the
age of consent has been 15 in France since 1945 Reference.

[Dr Mordrid]

There goes "2. dual criminality"

On the bail front; when this guys lawyer made the case for bail he assured the judge that a place for him to reside was all set up - all concerned are down with it, no problem - turn him loose. Today we find out this was not true; the landlord of the apartment building says No Way In Hell is he going to put his tenants at risk by having this guy there.

OOPS - shift gears!

Now his release is delayed while they set up a temporary place to take him until other arrangements can be made. Next question is; will they be able to find digs for the guy that (1) meet the courts security requirements and (2) still have the property owner or homeowners/condo association agree to allow it?

Seems this guy is as popular as a skunk in church

[degrub]

Evidence is what is presented in court.
Everything else is hearsay, including what the media presents.
Unless she testifies in court, it is just a sensational media story.

and i don't believe the media has changed all that much in the last 200 years here - information just moves faster. Rumors, hearsay , and speculation are moving at the speed of the net, rather than at the speed of print.

[Jessterw]

This link will off-topic regarding this scandal, but slightly on-topic regarding Brian's comments concerning injunctions.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/twitter-asked-to-stop-users-from-gossiping-then-gets-sued.ars

Yes indeed, the UK's legal system is certainly better than that of the US in this regard. *cough*

[Dr Mordrid]

Evidence is what is presented in court.
Everything else is hearsay,

Evidence was presented in court; 2 arraignments and before a citizens Grand Jury which returned an indictment based on it.

Such CGJ indictments are not automatic - I've served on one (Michigan cities/counties don't have a standing CGJ like NY but can call one) and it's not unusual for prosecutors to come out empty handed. If the evidence presented were not credible the largely liberal judges in NYC would not have remanded the first time or set such a high condition for bail this time.

True there is still a trial, but I'm willing to bet he plea bargains for a better incarceration locale than he'd otherwise get; a Club Fed beats Attica. This because rape conviction rates in NYC run 75-80 percent, and his lawyers know that.

[Brian Ellis]

As usual, half-truths abound! The reason that the co-locataires of his daughter's apartment block (and other luxury ones) not wanting DSK was nothing whatsoever about the man himself. They did not want the media circus on their doorsteps, that's all. There is no doubt that this would be an ordeal, while an elderly gentleman unable to put a foot outside an apartment would be inconsequential even to the nearest neighbour.

[Dr Mordrid]

Police report....