Half an hour of horror!

[Brian Ellis]

I went through the whole 6-part report here, with all the videos, about child abuse in the USA. It takes about half an hour to go through the lot. I don't post it to "get at" the USA or the Bible belt in particular but to really open your eyes that the country that murders doctors to protect foetuses also shows that some of those foetuses may experience horrors both including and worse than death. One of the outstanding things is the variations between States, Texas being the worst down to NH with less than 1/10th of that of Texas.



If this report were proportionally about any other country, I would be equally as shocked. The situation is bad enough in other industrialised nations, averaging about 1 child per 100,000/year:


And this may be only the tip of the iceberg.

Disturbing, to say the least.

Read the 6 scripts and watch the 8 or 9 clips for an insight into a horror and then read here.

[Dr Mordrid]

>
I don't post it to "get at" the USA or the Bible belt in particular but to really open your eyes that the country that murders doctors to protect foetuses
>

Not to minimize them, but a grand total of 4 over several decades - yet it continues to be a huge political talking point in spite of other more left-leaning terror groups and individuals (Unibomber, eco-terror groups etc.) killing far more people. Where's the selective outrage over those?

>
One of the outstanding things is the variations between States, Texas being the worst down to NH with less than 1/10th of that of Texas.
>

And different states have different reporting standards, with some lumping together categories that other states separate. In 1998 Texas aggregated its reporting of deaths due to abuse with neglect and other causes such as deaths related to parental substance abuse (ex: impaired driving etc.) That was the first year that Texas's numbers diverged from the national averages.

A major factor is of course poverty, and there Texas has special problems states like New Hampshire don't - massive numbers of indigent illegal immigrants and a drug-fueled Mexican civil war vs. the Cartels that crosses the border, bringing the drugs and gang activity with them.

Now factor in the near total unwillingness of Administrations over the last 20+ years to actually do anything about it because they were courting the Hispanic vote, plus the current Administration actually suing States that dare try to get a handle the problem themselves and you have a cluster f***.

[Brian Ellis]

Not to minimize them, but a grand total of 4 over several decades

In the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort...

...According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

IMHO, violence against abortion providers is inexcusable, no matter ones personal opinions on abortion.

However, this subject is unimportant compared with the number of kids murdered by their own parents, which far outweigh the numbers killed by "left-leaning terror groups and individuals (Unibomber, eco-terror groups etc.)" and right-leaning terror groups and individuals (Timothy McVeigh and Co, http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...from-the-right) combined. We are apparently considering up to 2,500 children murdered per year, not the few hundred killed by terrorists (majority right wing). Consider the outcry if there had been the same number of kids as are murdered over 15 months in the twin towers on 9/11, instead of adults!

[Dr Mordrid]

I only addressed doctors killed because that was the calculus you used.

As to abuse yes, its a horrible problem but also one directly linked to the problems I listed re: Texas which was the primary focal point in the OP.

Drugs, alcohol, poverty and a proportional problem - we have >300 million people vs a country like France etc. Being a large, spread out nation also hurts the ability to mitigate the problem vs. the smaller geographies in Europe.

There is also a difference in cultural diversity - we are more diverse than most European nations. Look at the rates in your immigrant communities and you're likely to see our problem staring back at you - and an indication of your future.

[cjolley]

I only addressed doctors killed because that was the calculus you used.

Oh please, this is what you said=>

Not to minimize them, but a grand total of 4 over several decades - yet it continues to be a huge political talking point in spite of other more left-leaning terror groups and individuals (Unibomber, eco-terror groups etc.) killing far more people. Where's the selective outrage over those?

And different states have different reporting standards...

Very true and a good reason to be very skeptical of such statistics.

A major factor is of course poverty, and there Texas has special problems states like New Hampshire don't - massive numbers of indigent illegal immigrants and a drug-fueled Mexican civil war vs. the Cartels that crosses the border, bringing the drugs and gang activity with them.

Now factor in the near total unwillingness of Administrations over the last 20+ years to actually do anything about it because they were courting the Hispanic vote, plus the current Administration actually suing States that dare try to get a handle the problem themselves and you have a cluster f***.

and

There is also a difference in cultural diversity - we are more diverse than most European nations. Look at the rates in your immigrant communities and you're likely to see our problem staring back at you - and an indication of your future.

Do you have any evidence at all that Hispanics are particularly prone towards child abuse?

[Dr Mordrid]

That's not exactly the point.

The major drivers are poverty and substance abuse, and there is no doubt that most poverty and drug abuse in the border regions exists among Hispanics - mainly among illegals. The problem isn't Hispanics themselves - it's location, location, location. We're talking Texas, so the problem will be mostly illegal Hispanics. In New England the problems are largely other groups hired as domestics. Elsewhere it's illegal Asians. Here we get Hispanics and some from the Middle East. Pick one.

That the trafficking of both illegals and drugs is encouraged by lax border enforcement is a matter of record. Segments in both parties try to benefit by courting the illegal vote, actually catering to them. Example: allowing illegals to get drivers licenses, which is often all you need to get a voters registration. "Legalized" voter fraud.

[degrub]

agree on the substance abuse, but alcohol and meth are throughout the US. Particularly where anhydrous is just a field or two away.

[cjolley]

That's not exactly the point.

My point is- do you have any statistics at all to back up what you are saying?
It sounds to me like you are just making it up as you go along.

[Dr Mordrid]

The longer they're here the worse they do. 2007, but it sure hasn't gotten better.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070812173257.htm

ScienceDaily (Aug. 13, 2007) — Substance abuse increases among recent Hispanic immigrants as they replace their traditional cultural beliefs with those of white Americans, according to new research presented recently by Oregon State University assistant professor Scott Akins at the American Sociological Association's Annual Meeting in New York.
>
The results were striking. Acculturated Hispanics were nearly 13 times as likely to report using illegal drugs as non-acculturated Hispanics.
>
The study shows that 6.4 percent of whites reported using illicit drugs in the previous month, compared to 7.2 percent of acculturated Hispanics. However, less than 1 percent of non-acculturated, Spanish-speaking Hispanics reported use in the same time period.
>
The above story is reprinted (with editorial adaptations by ScienceDaily staff) from materials provided by Oregon State University, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.

[Umfriend]

I would think that the acculturated Hispanics are less poor than the non-acculturated ones?

[Dr Mordrid]

Not necessarily - it just means they've been here long enough to be culturally influenced. With typical kids moving to a new area that's what, 6 months?

[cjolley]

It also depends on what the drugs are as to how it affects the likelihood of child abuse.
Think pot -vs- meth

And anyway that is self reported behavior. A notoriously bad statistical sample.


And furthermore, it begs the question.
The US just has a higher incidence of child abuse than other industrialized countries.
You seem to be saying that's because of immigrants and there is just no evidence of that at all.

Think about your last argument:
Hispanics are catching up to whites in drug usage.
Therefore Hispanic immigrants are pushing the US over the top in child abuse statistics?
That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Brian Ellis]

Eighty-seven percent of victims were comprised of three races or ethnicities—African-American â–*
(22.3%), Hispanic (20.7%), and White (44.0%).

More than 75 percent (78.3%) suffered neglect; â–*
More than 15 percent (17.8%) suffered physical abuse; â–*
Less than 10 percent (9.5%) suffered sexual abuse; and â–*
Less than 10 percent (7.6%) suffered from psychological maltreatment. â–*

The overall rate of child fatalities was 2.34 deaths per 100,000 children; â–*
Four-fifths (80.8%) of all child fatalities were younger than 4 years old; â–*
Boys had a slightly higher child fatality rate than girls at 2.36 boys per 100,000 boys in the popula- â–*
tion and girls died of abuse and neglect at a rate of 2.12 per 100,000 girls in the population;
One-third (35.8%) of child fatalities were attributed to neglect exclusively; and â–*
One-third (36.7%) of child fatalities were caused by multiple maltreatment types. â–*

Four-fifths (80.9%) of duplicate perpetrators of child maltreatment were parents, and another 6.3 â–*
percent were other relatives of the victim;
Of the duplicate perpetrators who were parents, four-fifths (84.7%) were the biological parents â–*
the victim;
Women comprised a larger percentage of all unique perpetrators than men, 53.8 percent compared â–*
to 44.4 percent; and
Four-fifths (83.2%) of all unique perpetrators were between the ages of 20 and 49 years. â–*

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf

It would seem that your preconceived ideas are all wrong. The above document (227 pages) gives a full account of this problem, divided into States, ethnicities, sex of victims, sex of perpetrators, type of abuse etc. It is true that they mention different reporting levels between States, but the authors consider that these are small as the criteria are laid down by law:

The Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA), (42
U.S.C.A. §5106g), as amended by the Keeping Children and Families Safe Act of 2003, defines child
abuse and neglect as at a minimum:
Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious
physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or an act or failure to act which presents an
imminent risk of serious harm.
Most States recognize four major types of maltreatment: neglect, physical abuse, psychological maltreatment,
and sexual abuse. Although any of the forms of child maltreatment may be found separately,
they also can occur in combination.

Interestingly, in all the States, the great majority of reported cases remain unsubstantiated, so there is a strong filtering process which probably levels the playing field.


As you can see above, the victims are predominantly white and Hispanics are the lowest of the three main ethnicities. The perps are white 48.5%, African-American 20%, Hispanic 18.7%. I must admit that I had grave doubts about your rants re Hispanics because they are predominantly Catholic, which Church has a culture of child-loving.

Surprisingly, only 9.5% of the abuses were sexual but this may be a grey area as reporting is more difficult. Look at the priestly paedophilia that remained hidden for decades; victims are possibly not even aware that the abuse is abnormal in many cases.

Almost 85% of the cases were perpetrated by the parents with the mothers worse than the fathers.

[dZeus]

<cut>

As you can see above, the victims are predominantly white and Hispanics are the lowest of the three main ethnicities. The perps are white 48.5%, African-American 20%, Hispanic 18.7%. I must admit that I had grave doubts about your rants re Hispanics because they are predominantly Catholic, which Church has a culture of child-loving.

Surprisingly, only 9.5% of the abuses were sexual but this may be a grey area as reporting is more difficult. Look at the priestly paedophilia that remained hidden for decades; victims are possibly not even aware that the abuse is abnormal in many cases.

Almost 85% of the cases were perpetrated by the parents with the mothers worse than the fathers.

ehm... is there any basis for that conclusion? Another view could be that the catholic church has a strong influence on its community and a long history of covering up abuse cases.

[Umfriend]

Indeed, stating that the Catholic Church has a culture of child-loving can, erhm, be interpreted in more than one way