Battery in my Civic Hybrid being replaced

[cjolley]

First to get this out of the way it is under warranty. (the car is a 2007)(just like Brian's?)
65k mile on the car with 15k miles left on the battery warranty.
This is about perfect timing because it starts the battery warranty over for another 8 years/80,000 miles

The only specific symptom was that the Check Engine Light (Honda actually calls it something else) came on a couple of times in the space of three days.
When they scanned it the computer said the battery was kaput.

Honda seems to be having a lot of hybrid battery problems. They put in a new firmware six months or a year ago that was supposed to extend the life of the battery.
We hated it because it had the side effect of dropping our mileage 20%
And apparently didn't save the battery anyway.
Hopefully this new battery will perform better.

We get the car back this morning and I will be very interested to see what our mileage is.

[Brian Ellis]

Interesting!

Since they downloaded the latest software into mine (guess about 6 months ago), I have had what appears to be illogical visual feedback but much lower fuel consumption. I have found the indicated charge levels on the battery "thermometer" go down to 2 or 3 squares from time to time. Obviously, with no juice there, it knocks hell out of the petrol engine, and pushes up the instantaneous consumption, if we meet a hill to climb. OTOH, the battery seems to recharge fully, under the right conditions, in just a few hundred metres or half-a-minute. The electric motor kicks in at much lower engine speeds if the battery has at least a third of a charge, even less than 2000 rpm if slightly climbing or accelerating (against about 3500 rpm with the original software). I guess this is why the consumption has improved by an average of 0.5 l/100 km over given trips. What puzzles me is the unpredictability of charging/discharging.

It would seem from the now-rapid charging that the charging current must be much higher than it was and this could explain why the battery life seems shorter. However, my battery is fine, according to the garage analyser, although my kilometres are about half of yours.

[cjolley]

One of the vague symptoms I noticed recently was sometimes extremely quick charge and discharge.
I think that may be a sign of battery wear.
It's capacity is going down so it fills and empties faster.

[VJ]

Just out of curiosity... How much would it cost to replace the battery if it is not covered by warranty?

[cjolley]

Just out of curiosity... How much would it cost to replace the battery if it is not covered by warranty?

I think about $2,000.


UPDATE:
Well they just called and are sending a shuttle to pick Becky up and take her to pick up the car.
They told her it would have been $2,600 without the warranty

[Dr Mordrid]

Don't they have NiMH batteries?

I read a while back they were having a big problem with charge imbalance causing trouble in their NiMH's, and that some owners were periodically using a line charger at night to get all the cells on the same page. IIRC they were using one limited to 7A to keep the high cells from overheating.

[cjolley]

Don't they have NiMH batteries?

Yes, see http://www.hybrid-battery-repair.com/hch/index.html

I read a while back they were having a big problem with charge imbalance causing trouble in their NiMH's, and that some owners were periodically using a line charger at night to get all the cells on the same page. IIRC they were using one limited to 7A to keep the high cells from overheating.

Well they are having some kind of problem. According to California they have a >4% failure rate. This has gotten the attention of the environmental regulators, who want to know:
1, Do the cars with failing batteries emit more. (seems obvious)
2, Have the firmware fixes designed to lengthen the life of the battery caused the cars to go out of compliance? You can't certify a car as partial zero emissions, then change the firmware in a way that causes the car to go out of compliance.

As to charging the cells at night: you couldn't get me to do that on a bet.

At the rate they are failing it seems to me like there is a very good chance that Honda will be forced to increase the warranty.
They have already had to do that with the sun visors, oddly enough.

[Brian Ellis]

I don't see how it would even be possible to use a line charger without some very serious modifications which would render the guarantee invalid. Only an idiot would do this, as the 8-year guarantee (no distance limit here) is generous and I don't think any HCHs are over that age. In any case, 7 A seems horrendously high for a NiMH battery with almost a couple of hundred cells the size of a D cell (I believe their capacity is 2.5 Ah, so 7 A would fry them after 20 minutes). I understand their aggregate energy capacity is about 600 Wh, so they give their full electric driving power (30 kW) for a maximum of about 72 seconds. I may have used the full power perhaps 3 or 4 times in 4½ years, each time for just a few seconds of kick-down while overtaking a truck in a safe but uphill limited length of road. You feel it push you in the back, as the petrol motor is also at full power then, no matter your actual speed, thanks to the constantly variable "gearbox". The added torque from the electrics is quite high.

As I mentioned earlier, I seem to have symptoms of problems but a) the Honda electronic analyser says not and b) my fuel consumption is lower than ever, which is the name of the game.

[Dr Mordrid]

WRT the one I read - a neighbor noticed an anomaly with his charge indicator & we were looking it up.

As to self fixing: Americans are habitual shade tree mechanics - even st the risk of a self-induced electrical burn.

[cjolley]

Well initial impression after two short drives with the new one is that our battery had been failing for a long time.
What a difference!
The electric motor comes on lot now.
I'll bet our mileage is way up.