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  • Bye-Bye Keynes?

    WaPo....

    Bye-Bye Keynes?

    "Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist."
    -- John Maynard Keynes, 1936


    WASHINGTON -- The eclipse of Keynesian economics proceeds. When Keynes wrote "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money" in the mid-1930s, governments in most wealthy nations were relatively small and their debts modest. Deficit spending and pump priming were plausible responses to economic slumps. Now, huge governments are often saddled with massive debts. Standard Keynesian remedies for downturns -- spend more and tax less -- presume the willingness of bond markets to finance the resulting deficits at reasonable interest rates. If markets refuse, Keynesian policies won't work.

    Countries then lose control over their economies. They default on maturing debts or must be rescued with loans from friendly countries, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), government central banks (the Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank) or someone. There are other reasons why Keynesian policies might fail or be weakened. But they pale by comparison with the potential veto now posed by bond markets. Ironically, the past overuse of deficits compromises their present utility to fight high unemployment.

    There is no automatic tipping point beyond which a country's debt -- the sum of past annual deficits -- causes bond markets to shut down. But Greece, Portugal and Ireland have already reached that point, with gross debt in 2011 equal to 166 percent, 106 percent and 109 percent of their national incomes (gross domestic product), according to IMF figures. Heavily indebted Italy and Spain could lose access to bond markets.

    Thankfully, the United States is not now in this position. Interest rates on 10-year Treasury bonds hover around 2 percent; investors seem willing to lend against massive U.S. deficits. Just why is unclear. It's not that U.S. budget discipline is noticeably superior. Economists Pedro Amaral and Margaret Jacobson of the Cleveland Federal Reserve recently compared U.S. budget performance against that of the weak European nations.

    In 2012, the American budget deficit is projected at 7.9 percent of GDP; Greece's is 6.9 percent; Italy's 2.4 percent. In 2012, U.S. government borrowing -- the deficit plus renewing maturing debt -- is estimated to be 27 percent of GDP; Greece's is 24 percent; Ireland's 19 percent. On the plus side, the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio is smaller than Europe's worst. Also, a "safe haven" effect -- reflecting the size of the U.S. economy and past political stability -- contributes to America's good fortune.

    Considering this, some economists urge more "stimulus." In a paper, Christina Romer -- former head of President Obama's Council of Economic Advisers -- argued that scholarly studies support the administration's view that its $787 billion stimulus in 2009 cushioned the recession. Another big stimulus "would be very helpful ... to really create a lot of jobs."

    I am less sure. For the record, I supported Obama's stimulus -- though disliking some details -- and, under similar circumstances, would again. The economy was in a tailspin; the stimulus provided a psychological and spending boost. But how much is less clear. As Romer notes, estimating the effect is "incredibly hard." For example, the Congressional Budget Office's estimate of added jobs from the stimulus ranged from 700,000 to 3.3 million for 2010.

    Suppose a new stimulus -- beyond renewal of the payroll tax cut -- did succeed at significant job creation. By piling up more debt, it would still risk aggravating a larger crisis later. There is no long-term plan to curb deficits. Americans seem to think they're invulnerable to a bond market backlash. Economist Barry Eichengreen, a leading scholar of the Great Depression, is dubious:

    "Given low interest rates and the still-weak U.S. economy, it will be tempting for the U.S. government to continue running deficits and issuing additional debt. At some point, however, investors will recognize this behavior for the Ponzi scheme it is. ... If history is any guide, this scenario will develop not gradually but abruptly.

    Previously gullible investors will wake up one morning and conclude that the situation is beyond salvation. They will scramble to get out. Interest rates in the United States will shoot up. The dollar will fall. The United States will suffer the kind of crisis that Europe experienced in 2010, but magnified."
    Governments have ceded power to bond markets by decades of shortsighted behavior. The political bias is to favor short-term stimulus (by lowering taxes and raising spending), which is popular, and to ignore long-term deficits (by cutting spending and raising taxes), which is unpopular. Debt has risen to hazardous levels, undermining Keynesian economics as taught in standard texts.

    Were Keynes alive now, he would almost certainly acknowledge the limits of Keynesian policies. High debt complicates the analysis and subverts the solutions. What might have worked in the 1930s offers no panacea today.

    Washington Post Writers Group
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 19 December 2011, 07:00.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    Originally posted by [I
    Washington Post Writers Group[/I];686656]
    ...
    Were Keynes alive now, he would almost certainly acknowledge the limits of Keynesian policies. High debt complicates the analysis and subverts the solutions.
    ...
    Is this Robert Samuelson arguing for higher taxes!? LOL
    I don't think he's thought through the conclusion this leads to.

    And he ends by arguing that Keynes' theory is being proven wrong because it has limits that Keynes would acknowledge.
    What a doofus.
    Chuck
    秋音的爸爸

    Comment


    • #3
      In medieval times, modern economists would have been burnt at the stake for false predictions
      Brian (the devil incarnate)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cjolley View Post
        Is this Robert Samuelson arguing for higher taxes!? LOL
        I don't think he's thought through the conclusion this leads to.

        And he ends by arguing that Keynes' theory is being proven wrong because it has limits that Keynes would acknowledge.
        What a doofus.
        There are many paths to lower deficits, including cutting up the credit cards and eliminating the role of govt. as venture capitalist and arbitor of winners & losers. The doofus is the one that thinks the current spendthrift policy is working.
        Dr. Mordrid
        ----------------------------
        An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

        I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
          There are many paths to lower deficits... eliminating the role of govt. as venture capitalist and arbitor of winners & losers...
          Eliminate all of that and the budget is still not balanced.


          Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
          There are many paths to lower deficits, including cutting up the credit cards...
          You can't cut up the credit card if your income is lower than your expenditures.


          Samuelson lives in a fantasy land where supply side economics works as anything other than a political ploy.
          Chuck
          秋音的爸爸

          Comment


          • #6
            Then at minimum you have to cut the growth rate of your expendatures, which in our baseline budgeting regime is ~8%. Start by cutting the baseline to no more than the CPI, trimming personnel by atrition, an overall consolidation of programs, block-granting programs, sunset a lot more etc.

            You have to start somewhere, and doing nothing is not an option - it makes us another EU sooner than later.
            Dr. Mordrid
            ----------------------------
            An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

            I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
              Then at minimum you have to cut the growth rate of your expendatures, which in our baseline budgeting regime is ~8%. Start by cutting the baseline to no more than the CPI, trimming personnel by atrition, an overall consolidation of programs, block-granting programs, sunset a lot more etc.

              You have to start somewhere, and doing nothing is not an option - it makes us another EU sooner than later.
              That's like saying that you have to have ingredients to bake a cake without specifying any of them.

              Well, except for the block granting. That's a political decision not a budgetary one.
              Chuck
              秋音的爸爸

              Comment


              • #8
                Block granting is economic if you no longer have to support that programs bloated bureaucracy.
                Dr. Mordrid
                ----------------------------
                An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
                  Block granting is economic if you no longer have to support that programs bloated bureaucracy.
                  Magical thinking.
                  Somebody administers it don't they?
                  You think State governments are more efficient and less corrupt than the Federal government?
                  That's laughable.
                  Chuck
                  秋音的爸爸

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Some state governments are. They aren't all California, NY or Illinois.
                    Dr. Mordrid
                    ----------------------------
                    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
                      Some state governments are...
                      Could you be more specific?
                      Chuck
                      秋音的爸爸

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cjolley View Post
                        Could you be more specific?
                        Utah is. Is that specific enough

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AlgoRhythm View Post
                          Utah is. Is that specific enough
                          Utah is what? More efficient than the federal government? Less corrupt?
                          Measured how?

                          It also only has 1/3 of the population of New York City alone.
                          This is the example of why block grants are so great?
                          Chuck
                          秋音的爸爸

                          Comment

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