How much do you pay for health insurance

[Dr Mordrid]

>
I would like better health care for all. I really do. It's a noble idea and someday, somehow, someone will figure out how to do it in the US. This was not the right way.

My sentimates exactly. Obamacare was poorly conceived, rushed through without hearings that would have revealed the massive faultlines, they denied amendments (even by other Dems) and when they couldn't muster enough votes in the Senate to pass it they resorted to reconciliation - a procedure intended only for budget bills. The whole law, and the process used to create it, reeks.

[cjolley]

...
The changes listed in the article were implemented long before I joined Microsoft. The changes that will take effect in 2013 are massive in comparison. 2011 would have cost me thousands of dollars out-of-pocket had I been on the "new" plan. Instead I paid nothing. In 2013 I go back to a plan only slightly better than what I had at the 35 person small business I left last year. And that's the root of my anger, because that plan sucked.
...

From the article (again):

...
An employee survey conducted for Microsoft last year by consulting firm Towers Perrin asked if employees were generally "willing to share in health care costs" through increased deductibles, co-payments or higher payroll contributions. Courtney cited the survey as evidence that the company has been contemplating broader changes
....

The article was printed in 2004 and said MS surveyed it's employees "last year".
So MS has been planning the changes you are blaming on Obama since at least 2003.

If it makes you feel better to blame Obama than MS be my guest.
But that's not really what happened.

[Jammrock]

From the article (again):
The article was printed in 2004 and said MS surveyed it's employees "last year".
So MS has been planning the changes you are blaming on Obama since at least 2003.

If it makes you feel better to blame Obama than MS be my guest.
But that's not really what happened.

You do realize the article was written 8 years ago, in the middle of the Bush II administration?

Yes there were changes planned, but how it changed was altered significantly by the new health care law. The new plan is specially designed so MS doesn't have to pay the 40% "Cadillac plan" tax when it begins in 2018. This is well documented internally through executive communication, so shove off.

[Technoid]

In Sweden we pay 150skr ~ 22$ per visit to a doctor (15 for a cert nurse). no matter what it is it seems (well, I havent managed to break any bones, MRI didnt add any cost) and hospitalization carries a 10$ day cost (might be higher now, my info is probably out of date. prescription meds has a max limit, 179$ a year (well, some meds dont get prescribed cause they are overpriced and ineffectual).

Dental is not included and is generally EXPENSIVE, but I have a 180$ a year insurance (that is the price for fixing ONE quick small hole without sedative, I'm so happy for getting that insurance when my other meds caused me to get holes like crazy)

on the "obamacare" it seems the republicans in this thread looses any rational logic ability whit anything related to democrats

They basically blames Obama for being screwed by their employers because said employer sees a chance to screw them over cause they are gonna blame obama instead the employer

[Jammrock]

on the "obamacare" it seems the republicans in this thread looses any rational logic ability whit anything related to democrats

They basically blames Obama for being screwed by their employers because said employer sees a chance to screw them over cause they are gonna blame obama instead the employer

Did you just call me a Republican? Them's fight'n words!

You should read my posts a little more carefully next time.

[Dr Mordrid]

Correct Jamm -

Technoid - as more of Obamacare's real ramifications become clear a lot of centrists and Dems are becoming critics - vocal ones. Many of us in (or retired from) the health care sector waved red flags like crazy, but Barry, Harry & Nancy were not listening. Now even former supporters like physicians groups are bailing. This thing is a real nasty can of worms.

To show how many physicians have revolted; the membership of the American Medical Association (AMA), the then major physicians group which supported Obamacare, has had its membership crater to just 15% of practicing physicians. Last I checked it's still going down.

OTOH this week a coalition of new and other physicians and patient advocacy groups are strategizing their next moves, and they're in the mood for a fight.

[Umfriend]

Just to get this straight, is MS paying medical insurance worth over USD 27,500 per year and that that currently that does not add to any tax? (i.e. you do not pay payroll/income tax on that 27.5K, MS does not pay any taxes related to that 27.5 but does pay less on corporate tax as the insurance is recorded as a cost?)

[Jammrock]

How the tax codes work right for corporations who provide health insurance, I don't know. I'm sure the amount of money they spend on health insurance reduces their taxable income in some fashion. The change, as I understand it, taxes MS 40% of any monies spent over a certain amount per employee.

The amount of money MS pays for my insurance does not show up on any of my income. It is all corporate assets being exchanged, with a few exceptions.

And yes, my family insurance is worth >$27500.

[Umfriend]

ROFL! Were I President, that insurance would be taxed at your marginal income tax rate!! What other compensation can your employer pay for free? If you get a car from your employer, say he leases it on his name for you to drive, taxable anywhere?

[cjolley]

Were I President, that insurance would be taxed at your marginal income tax rate!! What other compensation can your employer pay for free?...

That's part of the Republican alternative.
It is one of several "be careful what you wish for" things for people who say they want Obamacare out, and a Republican president in, to think about.

[Umfriend]

That's part of the Republican alternative.

Really? Good for them! I did not know that (and I still don't, it is hard to believe from a party crying over taxes all the time).

I am now really wondering whether in the US employers can also provide cars, housing, other insurance etc. on the same basis?

I would also suspect that such programs are actually bringing shitloads of money to the insurance companies as these programs are effectively subsidised by the government and the subsidy may well be split between employers and insurance providers (and yes, the employees would have some benefit as well).

[cjolley]

Health insurance is treated that way for historical reasons here.
It does cause the problems you point out. But just dumping it would be a huge tax hit on the working poor.
The Obamacare cap thing is a baby step toward fixing it.

[Jammrock]

ROFL! Were I President, that insurance would be taxed at your marginal income tax rate!! What other compensation can your employer pay for free? If you get a car from your employer, say he leases it on his name for you to drive, taxable anywhere?

It's not taxable because it's not considered personal income. The problem with your logic in the US tax system is that it would not actually effect my taxable income.

Health insurance premiums and health savings accounts are, in most cases, a pre-tax deduction. While my gross income would go up by adding health insurance to my pay stub my taxable income would be the same or less because the premiums would be deducted pre-tax. There are a few optional items I pay post-tax right now that would probably get bundled in with my pre-tax deductions and in the end my taxable income would probably be a bit less than it is now.

There are some other expenses that you are not personally liable for. I don't know them all. A company cannot pay a lease on a personal car for you, but they can pay a lease on a company car used for company business and it's not taxable to the use. Expense accounts are another one. All that money spent to woo clients doesn't count against the employees taxable income.

Income sent to a retirement fund, like a 401k or Simple IRA, is a pre-tax deduction. I'm sure there is more. That's just what comes to mind.

[cjolley]

Health insurance premiums and health savings accounts are, in most cases, a pre-tax deduction...

The plan would be to remove the health insurance premium deduction.
And, at least where I work, the pre-tax portion of a health savings account is capped at $2,400/year. For all I know, though, that could just be us.

[Umfriend]

OK, well, if all get to deduct insurance premium then it is a level playing field I guess. It does make your insurance quite a bit cheaper compared to what I have as that all comes out of post-tax income.