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  • 65 y/o man kills teen mugger, wounds another

    No charges: Pennsylvia has a Castle Doctrine law.



    A 65-year-old Reading man who was riding his bicycle was justified in shooting two teens - one fatally - who tried to rob him on a Schuylkill River trail as part of a crime spree, the Berks County district attorney said Thursday.

    The teens, age 16 and 15, and another 15-year-old boy skipped school Wednesday and robbed two pedestrians in West Reading before they attacked the man as he rode on the Thun Trail in Cumru Township at 11 a.m., police said.

    The man, whose name authorities withheld, will not be charged for shooting the teens because he acted in self-defense, which is legal under Pennsylvania's Castle Doctrine, District Attorney John T. Adams said.

    "While I don't condone violence, the bike rider had no choice," Adams said. "It was justifiable homicide."

    Julius Johnson, 16, of Reading was pronounced dead at the scene Wednesday morning after he was shot in his chest with a handgun, officials said.

    An autopsy Thursday by Dr. Supriya Kuruvila, a forensic pathologist at Reading Hospital, determined Johnson died of a gunshot wound to the chest, according to the county coroner's office. The death was ruled a homicide, officials said.

    The 15-year-old shot in the neck remained in Reading Hospital on Thursday, officials said. Information about his medical condition could not be obtained. Police did not release his name because he has not been charged.

    The third teen, Michael Gonzalez, 15, address unavailable, was charged with robbery, aggravated assault and related offenses and committed to the county youth center in Bern Township.

    Officials said an investigation continues.

    Johnson was a Reading High School student, and the 15-year-olds are Gov. Mifflin High School students, Adams said.

    Adams gave this account:

    Johnson was on probation for previous offenses. Juvenile probation officers had gone to his Oakbrook residence earlier Wednesday and found the three teens playing video games.

    They told the two 15-year-olds to leave. The officers put an electronic monitoring device on Johnson's ankle, ordered him to stay home and report to their office with his parents at 4 p.m.

    Instead, the three met up and decided to jump and rob random victims.

    They first robbed an elderly man in West Reading shortly after 10 a.m., taking money from his pockets, then tried to rob another man in West Reading, kneeing him in the stomach and pushing him to the ground. Neither man was hurt.

    The bike rider was on the trail between Reading and West Reading.

    As he rode past the teens, the 15-year-old whose name was not released punched the man in the face, knocking him from his bike. Johnson ran and kicked the man, who was sitting against a chain-link fence along the trail.

    As one of the teens ran toward the man, he shot Johnson and the 15-year-old.

    People who found the man called 9-1-1 and waited for police to arrive. It was unclear if the people heard the shots or were on the trail.

    The teens weren't armed, but the shootings were legal because the man was unable to escape, thought his life was in danger and had a permit to carry his gun, Adams said.

    The man told investigators: "I was scared for my life. I was in big trouble. If I could have kept my bike on the trail, I would have gotten out of there."

    The man was unhurt but shaken by the shootings, Adams said.

    Adams did not know if Johnson's monitoring device had GPS tracking capabilities or if it simply triggered an alarm when he left his home. Adams said juvenile probation officers acted appropriately.

    Cumru Police Chief Jed Habecker credited his department for its quick investigation.

    He said the crime was only the second robbery to occur along the Cumru section of the Thun Trail in about a decade.

    Adams said he has heard from many people in the community that the bicyclist was a hero for successfully defending himself.

    "When your life is in danger, you have no choice but to use deadly force," he said.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    One more Darwin Award winner.

    Comment


    • #3
      Another murder, Castle doctrine or not. A shot in the knee would have been equally effective. This is exactly why I'm opposed to US Wild West gun laws.
      Brian (the devil incarnate)

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, here, criminals, shot while robbing have sued successfully in civil courts and WON damages from their victim as compensation for their injury. Corpses don't sue. Shouldn't happen that way, but the attorney gravy train can produce odd results.

        Comment


        • #5
          The vast majority of states now have Castle Doctrine, Stand Your Ground, both ot similar laws that also include civil immunity for a citizen defending themself or others: neither the perp or their family can sue.

          Also: concealed carry training classes are taught by either certified cops or certified trainers who train cops. Mine was the Police Commissioner who had 30+ years of service and was an ex-Marine. They very firmly teach 3 things -

          1) if the gun comes out the situation has deteriorated to the point where warning shots are seldom effective. They can also ricochet or travel from the area and either damage property or harm innocents.

          2) shoot for the center of mass - the torso is the largest target and the easiest to hit. Aiming for a limb has a 75-80% probability of missing - see #1. The bullet needs to find a home: the perp.

          3) shoot to kill, and use ammunition geared to that end: rounds intended to generate hydrostatic shock. These are advance hollow points that expand to almost twice their nominal caliber shortly after entry, creating a 1,000 to 2,000 PSI pressure wave that can cause damage far beyond the wound channel. Brain damage from a body wound is not unusual.
          Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 16 February 2012, 17:10.
          Dr. Mordrid
          ----------------------------
          An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

          I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brian Ellis View Post
            Another murder, Castle doctrine or not. A shot in the knee would have been equally effective...
            In the real world even trained police officers aren't that good.

            I'm not sure what the Castile Doctrine has to do with this.
            Seems like straight forward self defense.
            Chuck
            秋音的爸爸

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cjolley View Post
              In the real world even trained police officers aren't that good.

              I'm not sure what the Castile Doctrine has to do with this. Seems like straight forward self defense.
              Castle Doctrine usually includes Stand Yor Ground style provisions extending its scope to not only the home & chattels but to to the public square, allowing not only self defense but the defense of third parties. Lots of crossover between CD and SYG these days. Some states are also giving civilians a police-style Fleeing Felon provision - you can shoot a fleeing perp.
              Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 16 February 2012, 22:37.
              Dr. Mordrid
              ----------------------------
              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

              Comment


              • #8
                It has been my observation that people who say "shoot 'em in the knee" have probably never handled a handgun and have no idea how near-impossible it is to hit a 4-inch target even under the best conditions. I like to think I'm a pretty good shot but I doubt I could put a bullet in a four-inch target from 10 feet using my .22, let alone anything of larger calibur. But then given the condition my pistol is in it's probably more effective as a bludgeon.

                Personally I think Brian is trolling us.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My pistols are all tuned & the shooter is the limiting factor by a long ways. I'm no competative shooter, but I'm pretty good. That said I would never use a knee shot - center of mass.
                  Dr. Mordrid
                  ----------------------------
                  An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                  I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Brian is not trolling: he genuinely feels that the civilian (or anyone else, including the state, for that matter) has no right to murder criminals.

                    FYI, 6 decades ago, when I was in the army, I earned the status of first class marksman involving range shooting with a .303 small magazine Lee-Enfield rifle, a Bren semi-automatic, an abortion of a weapon called the Sten (designed to spray 9 mm rounds over a wide area!) and a 9 mm service revolver, including snap-shooting. So I do know a little about weaponry. I agree that a knee may be a difficult, in the heat of the moment, but the thighs are about as broad as the chest, hoping the femoral artery is missed.

                    And the kid he murdered was unarmed.
                    Brian (the devil incarnate)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      'Murder' has a specific legal meaning in the US: an unjustifiable homicide. OTOH, 'self defense' is a justified homicide, and perfectly legal. Therefore: this was not murder. A victimizer surrenders his right to safety as soon as he tries to take it from someone else.

                      As to a thigh shot: what if the perp is armed? Even if put to the floor with a thigh wound (not a certainty!) he's still combat effective and can shoot you. Better by far to take him out with the first shot, thereby minimizing the risk to you and your family. Besides: the overpressure from those hydra-shock rounds would probably rupture the femoral artery even if you missed it.
                      Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 17 February 2012, 00:33.
                      Dr. Mordrid
                      ----------------------------
                      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Murder also has a moral meaning. Oxford:
                        Kill (a human being) unlawfully, esp. wickedly or inhumanly; spec. kill (a human being) with a premeditated motive, kill with malice aforethought.
                        The act of carrying a weapon is premeditation and malicious.
                        Brian (the devil incarnate)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brian Ellis View Post
                          Murder also has a moral meaning. Oxford:

                          The act of carrying a weapon is premeditation and malicious.
                          How very simplistic. Dictionary != legal.

                          As to carrying being a premeditation, no. It is a legal, and encouraged through law, precaution & protection against violent criminals because cops can't be everywhere in this very large country. We also have at least 10-15 million people with antisocial personality disorder, many of them quite violent from a young age as with these refugees from A Clockwork Orange..

                          Think a self-defense parachute.
                          Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 17 February 2012, 00:50.
                          Dr. Mordrid
                          ----------------------------
                          An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                          I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            IMO, this is quite a clear cut case, and even though the outcome (for the robber) is very harsh, it is the rbbers own fault. Something similar happened in Belgium last year, where an elderly man stabbed a burglar in the neck, killing him. The burglar was threatening him and his wife and the elderly man used a knife he could grab.

                            I normally tend to agree with Brian on these weapon issues, but in this situation I tend to put the blame with the robbers rather than with the gun carrying guy.
                            pixar
                            Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gun, knife, baseball bat or whatever - they're all tools to accomplish a goal: self defense against violent criminals. Getting hung up on the tool used or its effectiveness in bringing a perp to a cold stop just confuses the basic issues.
                              Dr. Mordrid
                              ----------------------------
                              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                              Comment

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