Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Unlocking phones in US illegal from Jan 26
Collapse
X
-
I'm on the fence on this one. If you want to choose the service provider then buy an unlocked phone to begin with. But what I do find outrageous is that it apparantly is a criminal offense? I believe it should be seen as a breach of contract for which the seller of the phone should sue the user.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
-
Originally posted by Fat Tone View PostI disagree.
The seller gets their money through the duration of the contract. What happens after contract expires is none of their business.
Like you can not own a car after you rented it for a while.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
Comment
-
Maybe we are at cross purposes here.
In the UK you get a phone on contract for say 12-24 month. You might pay £0 or £400 for the phone.
At the end of the contract the phone is paid for and you no longer have any obligation to the provider.
All I am saying is that at that point you should be able to do whatever you like with your own property.
Cheers
Tony.FT.
Comment
-
I think I understand but I do not necessarily agree that you no longer have any obligation to the provider or that the provider does not have any rights at termination of the contract. That really depends on the contract itself: if it states, for example, that they provided the phone under the condition that you would never seek to unlock it than that obligation of your survives.
I know little about the DMCA but believe that under that act, actions such as deeds would be subject to police investigation / criminal penalties. That I would have a huge issue with.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
Comment
-
As I see it, if a phone company gives you a deal like $1 down and $25/month, this is a form of leasing and the phone is not your property until the contract is completed. You therefore have no right to modify its firmware in the meanwhile. Any more than you can soup up a leased car. Read the small, light grey print before signing.
As for copyright, I'm not au fait with US law but it could be that modifying firmware code may well be a breach of some form of intellectual property.Brian (the devil incarnate)
Comment
-
Originally posted by Brian Ellis View PostAs I see it, if a phone company gives you a deal like $1 down and $25/month, this is a form of leasing and the phone is not your property until the contract is completed.
As for copyright, I'm not au fait with US law but it could be that modifying firmware code may well be a breach of some form of intellectual property.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
Comment
-
Originally posted by Fat Tone View PostAt the end of the contract the phone is paid for and you no longer have any obligation to the provider.
All I am saying is that at that point you should be able to do whatever you like with your own property.
At the end of the contract, things change even more. The way I see it:either the phone is not yours when the contract terminates (e.g. if it is considered that you rented it, and thus it should be returned to the operator), or the phone is yours (in which case you can do whatever you want). Saying the the phone is yours but you are not allowed to unlock it is stupid. And making unlocking it a criminal offence is really surprising...
So, yes, I'm with Fat Tone on this...
I have a contract with Orange in Poland, and the phone is simlocked. But Orange unlocks it for a fee of approx 15 euro, even during the contract, but it cancels the warranty. I have an other unlocked phone, and at the end of the contract (which also is the end of the warranty) with Orange I'll evaluate the phone: if it is good, I would have it unlocked, if it is not good anymore, I can use it as a wifi handset/control/micro tablet/....
Comment
-
Here in Denmark you bind yourself for 6 months if you buy a phone through your phone company. After the 6 months the company must open your phone for free. I even think most phones are unlocked from the start, as you'll still pay for the phone even if you use it through another company.
I bought my current phone through my phone company and had a contract for 6 months. After that I was free to find another company (I haven't as the one I have is great).Laptops: ASUS G750JM: Intel Core i7 4700HQ, 8GB RAM (DDR3-1600), Nvidia GTX 860M, 1 x Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD, 1 x WD 750 GB HDD, 17,3" FHD Screen, Windows 8.1 64-bit.
ASUS Vivobook S400CA: Intel Core i5 3317U (1,7-2,6 GHz), 8 GB RAM (DDR3-1600), Intel HD4000, 1 x 500GB HDD, 14" touch-screen (1366x768), Windows 8.1 64-bit.
Comment
-
Originally posted by VJ View PostAt the end of the contract, things change even more. The way I see it:either the phone is not yours when the contract terminates (e.g. if it is considered that you rented it, and thus it should be returned to the operator), or the phone is yours (in which case you can do whatever you want)Saying the the phone is yours but you are not allowed to unlock it is stupid.And making unlocking it a criminal offence is really surprising...Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
Comment
-
Originally posted by Umfriend View PostThis is not true and should not be true in the sense that a seller should be free to negotiate post-transfer provisions. Don;t like it? Don't buy it.
Of course, suppose the phone just self destructs at the end of the contract, the operator still honoured it. So having the phone afterwards is just a benefit you get. And even if it is locked; you can still use it with the same operator - which is even better than the self destruct.
Originally posted by Umfriend View PostIt may be stupid but one should be free to contract (unharmful) stupid things.
If I get a loan from the bank to buy a car, but the bank says: you are not allowed to change the colour. After the loan is paid, why should the bank care what I do with it? They got their money.
Luckily, it seems more and more operators are not using simlocks anymore, so I am thinking this problem will solve itself. But it is interesting from a discussion point of view. A bit like the discussion about how your children cannot inherit music you bought on iTunes...
Comment
-
I have a smartphone which looks like one named after an aggregate edible fruit, composed of small drupelets, in the Rubus genus in the Rosaceae family. It was made in China and its model number is the same as that of the original. It is, indeed, sufficiently similar in appearance that a vendor in the Cyprus Telecommunications Authority believed it was the real McCoy, which she sold. That is until I told her the price I paid for it (EUR 40.00, free postage). It has two SIM slots; she said hers had only one and was locked, even when sold without a contract. I asked her for a second SIM card for my prehistoric Nokia which was hands-free in the car, on the same number. She said that they sold SIM cards only for locked phones. I said nonsense, because the Nokia, bought in this country, was not locked and had a CYTA SIM. She had a look in her computer and said that indeed I was right, that my number was in an unlocked phone (amazing what they know about their clients!). She therefore decided I could have a second SIM on the same no. on an unlocked phone and I've been happy with it since. The only hic is that only 1 phone is active at a time and there are codes to switch between them.
Brian (the devil incarnate)
Comment
-
This is a nice example of where I feel that criminal persecution might be just. Not of you, Brian, but of the people producing that device.
@VJ: Yes, the general/public interest is an argument which may be used to void contracts like in the case of the painting IMHO.Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
[...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen
Comment
Comment