Renovation update

[xortam]

Expansion insulation foam is great stuff! It will provide you with air, water, thermal and noise barriers. Be careful that you mask surrounding surfaces as the foam slowly expands (for about 30 minutes maybe) and you may overfill and the foam will extend several inches outside the intended area. It's easy to cut away the extra foam but it will adhere to the surfaces. You also need to wear gloves. There are other types of expansion insulation foams that you can use around plumbing penetrations, electrical boxes, and fire risk locations.

[Umfriend]

Here rents are comparable to a sizeable mortgage, so its not even really a cheap option.

It's actually fun to try to work it all out exactly.

In any case, even if rent = mortgage, then still:
1. Is the tax liability the same (here, we have inhibitants AND owners taxes for instance)?
2. Who pays for insurance?
3. Who pays for maintenance?

[cjolley]

Unless the landlord is running a charity the renters pay all of them don't they?
Plus profit.

[Umfriend]

In a free competitive market? Yes. Show me where there is one. Also, with the general expectation that house values (in the longer term) increase, that benefit is for the owner and hence rents would be lower than ownership (with both being equally wealthy at the *end* of a hypothetical scenario).

[cjolley]

In a free competitive market? Yes. Show me where there is one...

Oklahoma, USA.
Here is a summary of the laws here: http://www.okbar.org/public/brochure...nts-rights.htm
I guess depending on what you mean by "free competitive market". Counter examples?

[Umfriend]

What about rent-protection? Over here, rent-increases are limited by the government every year, unless the rent is part of the 'free sector'. I do not know how large that sector is. Been a home owner (that is, I keep the place OK for the bank) since 1992.

How easy is it to build? Are zoning laws strict? Over here, municipalities basically have a monopoly on developable land.

[cjolley]

Are you familiar with the term "Wild West"?

[Umfriend]

In that case, don't even buy. Just build your own (and defend with guns).

I would think that housing costs are rather low there then?

[cjolley]

Very low compared to most places. We prefer older homes because they are closer in to where I work downtown (4Mi)
Building your own involves moving pretty far out by now.
Our house was in the suburbs when it was built in 1938 though.

Owning homes built in the 30's makes it so I can really relate to VJ's trials.

[VJ]

I chose to buy something for the following reason. The rent here is very expensive compared to salary, which means that either you have to rent something small (if you want to have anything left at the end of the month) or far from the centre (more difficult to reach work, less fun).

I rented something at a reduced price (from a friend), and it still was almost my whole salary, for 35m2 in the centre, ok-ish apartment but it needed renovation (bathroom, kitchen). This was a temporary solution, but I needed find a cheaper way of living: rent, but move out of the centre or get something even smaller; or buy. So I bought an apartment that has 70m2 in the centre (at a time when real estate was at a low here) and I did not need a mortgage for that (one of the benefits of first working 10 year in a country where average salaries are much higher). The monthly expenses I have are much less than my rent.

If I need to move, and manage to sell the apartment for the same price as I paid for it (+ renovation cost), I will have been cheaper off (safe investments don't give much interest anyway) and much more comfortable. Add to that that the real estate market is improving, the building is perfectly located in the centre, it is scheduled for a full renovation of elevators (this year) and facade (probably in 2 years) and there is no room for new buildings nearby. It is always a gamble, but I feel comfortable that the value of the apartment will not drop.

[Wulfman]

...and much more comfortable.

really?

Wolfgang

[VJ]

really?

LOL...

Yes, really... Just knowing that you at least have the freedom to change things, and having more space... The apartment I rented was also in need of renovation (maybe not so extensive as mine), so it also had shortcomings because of that.