HyperLoop (800 mph "train" - updates)

[Dr Mordrid]

Some details that have leaked are that it travels through an evacuated tube and the electric power is supplied by solar, most likely using panels from Musk's Solar City and storage cells using at least some of Tesla's techs.

http://usatoday.com/article/news/2521215

Tesla Motors CEO and co-founder Elon Musk started off his week on Monday by tweeting an announcement that, from anyone else, would have sounded like a tease for a bad sci-fi movie: "Will publish Hyperloop alpha design by Aug 12. Critical feedback for improvements would be much appreciated."

If you still think electric cars or rocket ships are cool, you haven't been keeping up with Musk. His "hyperloop" is a proposed "really rapid transit system" that he says will be able to get a passenger from San Francisco to Los Angeles in a half-hour. That would mean travel at 800 miles per hour, or about twice the speed of conventional aircraft.

He has been a little vague on how this works, except to say recently that the concept is "a cross between a Concorde, a railgun, and an air-hockey table."

Also, he says it will be impossible to crash, always available on demand, way less expensive than current travel options and, ideally, solar-powered.

Remember, this isn't Donald Trump talking trash. This is Elon Musk, who has already changed the nature of money, as a co-founder of PayPal, the electronic payments system.

Since selling PayPal to eBay, Musk has served as CEO of SpaceX, which is in the business of building rocket ships and spacecraft. The company, which he co-founded, is now under contract with NASA to service the International Space Station.

Of greater interest to today's investors, though, is Musk's role as co-founder, CEO, and CTO of Tesla Motors, the venture that is proving that building all-electric vehicles can be a profitable business.
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[Brian Ellis]

This sounds like a plagiarised Swissmetro idea, which very nearly had a prototype built between Lausanne and Geneva. The concept was started in 1974 by one Rodolphe Nieth. The major difference is that Swissmetro was technically and economically developed, with working models, to a full-blown project stage and is not just a concept. A government-sponsored corporation was founded to build the 60 km prototype which fell through in 2005 from lack of Federal funding. Since then, efforts have been made to restart the project, especially to link Geneva and Zurich airports (250 km) as well as between the major cities. See http://www.swissmetro.ch/en/ but dig deep into the links to get down to the nitty-gritty. Regarding speed, this was analysed carefully and the optimum was determined at about 500 km/h, above which the energy requirement rose rapidly a) because of maglev inertia and b) because it would be necessary to have better evacuation of the tunnels.

BTW: SF to LA in a seismic area???

[Dr Mordrid]

Construction in seismic zones can be handled now by using floating bearings isolating the structures, and is already in California's building codes.

Musk previously described HyperLoop as a cross between a rail gun and an air hockey table. An aerospace guy on Twitter named Tinker put up an interpretation that Musk responded to as being the closest guess he'd seen. It used electromagnetic acceleration and deceleration segments at either end of the loop, air jet levitation, and a moving air column to maintain the pods velocity post-acceleration. Bypasses between the legs contained the air pressure system. Power has been hinted to use solar arrays from Musk's Solar City company and storage developed by Tesla, supplemented by the grid.

Just how close Tinker was we'll find out in August.

[VJ]

If it would be anyone else but Musk, people would say it is crazy... But Musk has quite a nice track record...

Of course we have to see, but a means for high speed, environmentally friendly transportation would be something big.

[Brian Ellis]

I can see loads of patent litigation coming up. Swissmetro's patents on vehicles travelling in evacuated tubes are as airtight as the tubes themselves.

[TransformX]

Unless said patents have expired. 15 years, no?

[Dr Mordrid]

I can see loads of patent litigation coming up. Swissmetro's patents on vehicles travelling in evacuated tubes are as airtight as the tubes themselves.

Indications are the tube is not evacuated, and even if so it may not pass legal muster because of prior art - such systems have been proposed before, they've appeared in fiction since Jules Verne etc. etc.

[VJ]

I can see loads of patent litigation coming up. Swissmetro's patents on vehicles travelling in evacuated tubes are as airtight as the tubes themselves.

I seem to recall some patent things from my study time:
1. Isn't there the requirement that a patent holder must license the patent at a reasonable price?
2. I also thought that if the patent holder does not use or license the patent, it expires faster...

And why the need for litigation? Things can be licensed legally....

[Dr Mordrid]

HyperLoop blog at tesla.com....

HyperLoop blog at tesla.com....

HyperLoop Alpha PDF (long analysis)....

Previously Elon Musk said he wanted to lay out the plan and let others run with the ball, but in a teleconference today he now says he would like to build the "demonstration article."

In the PDF he addresses overcoming the Kantrowitz Limit, the speed limit imposed on the pod by the trapped column of air ahead of it. His solution: divert it with an electric fan, not unlike a high-bypass turbofan engine and with some of it being used to levitate the pod.

Abstract

Existing conventional modes of transportation of people consists of four unique types: rail, road, water, and air. These modes of transport tend to be either relatively slow (i.e., road and water), expensive (i.e., air), or a combination of relatively slow and expensive (i.e., rail). Hyperloop is a new mode of transport that seeks to change this paradigm by being both fast and inexpensive for people and goods. Hyperloop is also unique in that it is an open design concept, similar to Linux. Feedback is desired from the community that can help advance the Hyperloop design and bring it from concept to reality.

Hyperloop consists of a low pressure tube with capsules that are transported at both low and high speeds throughout the length of the tube. The capsules are supported on a cushion of air, featuring pressurized air and aerodynamic lift. The capsules are accelerated via a magnetic linear accelerator affixed at various stations on the low pressure tube with rotors contained in each capsule. Passengers may enter and exit Hyperloop at stations located either at the ends of the tube, or branches along the tube length.

In this study, the initial route, preliminary design, and logistics of the Hyperloop transportation system have been derived. The system consists of capsules that travel between Los Angeles, California and San Francisco, California. The total trip time is approximately half an hour, with capsules departing as often as every 30 seconds from each terminal and carrying 28 people each. This gives a total of 7.4 million people each way that can be transported each year on Hyperloop. The total cost of Hyperloop in this analysis is under $6 billion USD. Amortizing this capital cost over 20 years and adding daily operational costs gives a total of about $20 USD (in current year dollars) plus operating costs per one-way ticket on the passenger Hyperloop.

Useful feedback is welcomed on aspects of the Hyperloop design. E-mail feedback to hyperloop@spacex.com or hyperloop@teslamotors.com

[SitFlyer]

I really hope that this viable.. IMO the current governor don't care of real results and just of legacy. I'm pretty certain that his legacy will kill the fishery.

[Dr Mordrid]

I really hope that this viable.. IMO the current governor don't care of real results and just of legacy. I'm pretty certain that his legacy will kill the fishery.

Governor Moon Beam Jerry Brown is a world class fool. The sooner California can get rid of him for a more pragmatic model the better.

[dZeus]

What if the propulsion fails? This futuristic vehicle looks like a tin of sardines, stuck in a tunnel. No way to move or get out until an assist vehicle pulls this coffin to the nearest station.

And what to do in case of fire?

I'm not surprised that Musk proposes to follow interstate routes. It would 'happily coincide' with being able to provide recharge points for Tesla's electric vehicles.

[Dr Mordrid]

What if the propulsion fails? This futuristic vehicle looks like a tin of sardines, stuck in a tunnel. No way to move or get out until an assist vehicle pulls this coffin to the nearest station.

The propulsion is a linear electric motor in the track that's only active during acceleration and deceleration - a few percent of the run. During coast it rides on an air bearing with only a fan moving the reduced pressure air around the pod (think turbofan) and downward for the air bearing. AIUI the fan module is separate, like a train engine, and pods can he extracted from tube segments.

And what to do in case of fire?

Disconnect the cars and activate their brakes to put distance between them and the fan module / "engine."

I'm not surprised that Musk proposes to follow interstate routes. It would 'happily coincide' with being able to provide recharge points for Tesla's electric vehicles.

Absolutely. The HyperLoop solar panels could charge a bunch of Tesla's SuperCharger stations. Metinks he has a lot more than SF to LA runs in mind. Detroit to Chicago (flat as a board run), DC to Boston, NYC to Philadelphia etc. Lots of likely candidates.

[dZeus]

Point is, inside the coffin in the tunnel, there are very little options to escape in case a fire starts inside the vehicle. I don't think the current proposition would meet safety standards.

Maybe Hyperloop is just another strategy by Musk in order to get federal subsidies for installing charging points next to interstate routes. That's his business model for Tesla, isn't it? Build expensive cars for the wealthy, get them subsidised with state funding.

[Dr Mordrid]

If he were angling theat way he wouldn't have open sourced it.

And FYI, Tesla paid off the DoE development loan they got - early. Way early.