NASA suspends non-ISS contacts with Russia

[Evildead666]

The European members posting here have very short memories about the fact that their countries were invaded twice in the past 100 years by a European dictator . Here they are now cheering on another European dictator to invade the Ukraine, they may be next..

No one here is saying that Russia should invade Ukraine (as far as i can tell) ?
Just the fact that the Crimean peninsula has been annexed, and that there is basically nothing we can do about it, and there is nothing we should really do about it, because it is none of our business basically.
"We" paid for the unrest in Kiev, and have caused the problems. Just so that we could try and get Ukraine on "our side" against Russia.
Russia bascially said "Oh no you don't" and jumped the Gun.

We haven't forgotten what our Grandfathers did, and what many of them laid down their lives to protect. (Something the US Gov't seems to have forgotten......FREEDOM)
It certainly wasn't so that the USA could rule the World, and it wasn't so that NATO could be a Bully.
NATO is/was a safeguard force, not an attack force. If someone attacks a NATO country, we retaliate.
NATO does not invade just because they can, that is not what it was created for.

@DR, yes France as well asked for reprisals, and stuff, following the UK's lead. I didn't add it, because I couldn't list them all, so kept the list short.

[Evildead666]

Here, I'll answer the most important question in the thread. Next spring. Tentative release date of May 15, 2015. Reshoots wrapped in Nov 2013.

Awesome. Wonder why they've mothballed it for all this time....

[UtwigMU]

The NATO troops would be because Herr Putin started playing the "Protect the Russian language!!" card with Estonia and other NATO members. What's next, Russian Hill in San Francisco? His confidence may be overriding his common sense.

It's not about Russian language, it's about Crimea base for which Russian language came as excuse.

I don't see Putin as Herr, I see him as kind of Russian Reagan and Thatcher in one person. Income tax in Russia is 13%, corporate tax is 20%. During Putin's first 8 years Russian economy doubled in size.

[Brian Ellis]

I don't see Putin as Herr, I see him as kind of Russian Reagan and Thatcher in one person. Income tax in Russia is 13%, corporate tax is 20%. During Putin's first 8 years Russian economy doubled in size.

Do I detect an oblique reference to Operation Urgent Fury, when Herr Reagan had the US Army/Marines invade Grenada, a British Commonwealth country, in 1983(?)? This was led by General Schwarzkopf, if my memory serves me correctly. This was also a violation of international law, outstandingly condemned by the UNGA but the UNSC was stymied against action by the US veto. Frau Thatcher was furious that her boy friend activated this violation of a sovereign territory because, like Ukraine, its administration was in a state of flux. Unlike Putin's coup, Reagan's left a number of dead, including from Grenadan military forces, Cuban mercenaries and civilians (including about 20 staff and patients of a mental hospital).

[Umfriend]

During Putin's first 8 years Russian economy doubled in size.

Thanks to Oil and other commodities, not because the economy got into better shape or became more industrious.

[UtwigMU]

Thanks to Oil and other commodities, not because the economy got into better shape or became more industrious.

Yes but there was oil under Yeltsin there as well. And Russia defaulted in 1998. Now gold and foreign currency reserves are nearly a trillion and debt to GDP is 8% or so.

[UtwigMU]

Do I detect an oblique reference to Operation Urgent Fury

In early 1980s I was playing with Legos mostly and haven't yet been following the World politics.

[Evildead666]

Do I detect an oblique reference to Operation Urgent Fury, when Herr Reagan had the US Army/Marines invade Grenada, a British Commonwealth country, in 1983(?)? This was led by General Schwarzkopf, if my memory serves me correctly. This was also a violation of international law, outstandingly condemned by the UNGA but the UNSC was stymied against action by the US veto. Frau Thatcher was furious that her boy friend activated this violation of a sovereign territory because, like Ukraine, its administration was in a state of flux. Unlike Putin's coup, Reagan's left a number of dead, including from Grenadan military forces, Cuban mercenaries and civilians (including about 20 staff and patients of a mental hospital).

Ahh, I was also playing Lego, but its something I didn't know, and appreciate the input
Cheers Brian

edit (Sooo far off Topic, sorry): Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada

[Dr Mordrid]

Of course if Russia's Cuban lapdogs had not been tying to spread their influence to their neighbors.....

[Brian Ellis]

Of course if Russia's Cuban lapdogs had not been tying to spread their influence to their neighbors.....

That is the lamest excuse for an illegal belligerent act of aggression against a sovereign state. It would be like barging into your neighbour's house and shooting him dead because the grapevine told you that he had committed some crime. The USA had no right to do that, as was made very clear by the General Assembly. It was worse than Russia's annexation of the Crimea, strongly condemned by Obama and Co., but then double standards abound in large nations.

[Dr Mordrid]

You ignore that the Grenada mission was triggered by a Cuban backed military coup which ousted a 4 year old constitutional government, and the result was a restoration of said constitutional government.

While (leftist leaning) media outside the region covered the events negatively, the Organization of American States requested the intervention, especially Grenada's neighbors who figured (correctly) they were next on Cuba's hit list.

And guess what outside nation was calling the shots and providing the arms for Cuba's little adventures in political interference?

As for the UN, save for the humanitarian parts most Americans would just as soon tow that building to Antartica with all its phoney baloney tin-foil hatters locked inside.

[Brian Ellis]

You ignore that the Grenada mission was triggered by a Cuban backed military coup which ousted a 4 year old constitutional government, and the result was a restoration of said constitutional government.

While (leftist leaning) media outside the region covered the events negatively, the Organization of American States requested the intervention, especially Grenada's neighbors who figured (correctly) they were next on Cuba's hit list.

And guess what outside nation was calling the shots and providing the arms for Cuba's little adventures in political interference?

As for the UN, save for the humanitarian parts most Americans would just as soon tow that building to Antartica with all its phoney baloney tin-foil hatters locked inside.

Nothing triggered the US invasion other than US paranoia against anything a deeper shade than pale pink. Notwithstanding, the US unilaterally undertook an illegal act of belligerence resulting in crimes against humanity (murder, rape etc.). Why does the US not invade Crimea in a similar way? After all, the new pseudo-rulers are a deep shade of pink, judging from the media, whether left or right leaning. The difference is that. in the case of Grenada, you had only a handful of Cuban mercenaries to beat, whereas you know you could not win in Crimea. Double standards again.

And guess what outside nation was calling the shots and providing the arms for Crimea's little adventures in political interference? The same one, under a different name.

Just please understand that the world generally does not like countries to interfere with other countries' politics, least of all with arms. Both the USA and Russia (and many of their more ignorant inhabitants) simply have not understood this simple fact. Let the lesser nations sort out their own problems instead of poking your nose where it is not wanted. It is not as if both these big countries have not got massive internal problems of their own, such as poverty, health etc. If the money wasted on war and defence were more wisely spent, then the world would be a better place.

I evoked the UN because in both the Grenada and Crimea events, the General Assembly very massively condemned the interventions. The main reason that the UN is toothless is because the permanent members of the Security Council invoke their power of veto, so that resolutions become anodyne. IMHO, the SC should revise its statutes so that it would require a majority to scupper a resolution. Unfortunately, this is a pipe-dream because it is a self-perpetuating body, with any change automatically vetoed by countries who want to continue getting away with murder (literally).

[Umfriend]

Let the lesser nations sort out their own problems instead of poking your nose where it is not wanted.

And here's the rub. What if a minority in such a country has the guns and no scrupules and the majority would want the big countries to intervene? There sure as hell won't be an election or referendum supportin gsuch intervention cause the other guys got the guns.

In the Grenada case, a democracy was overthrown and, after the invasion, democracy was restored. Totally different of course from what would have happened in Nicaragua had the contra's won.

The difference is that. in the case of Grenada, you had only a handful of Cuban mercenaries to beat, whereas you know you could not win in Crimea. Double standards again.

I'm pragmatic enough to understand that you fight the battles you can (or will) win and choose to avoid the fights you'll loose to live another day. It does not have to be about double standards, it can simply be that one objective is within your means and another is not.

[Dr Mordrid]

I would add that besides the Grenadine coup and Cuban troops there were also North Korean troops stationed there.

Also; October 25 is now Thanksgiving Day in Grenada, to commemorate the invasion.

[Umfriend]

Well, if Cuban and North Korean troops were stationed there at the request of the government.... The US has troops in many countries, not all of the democratic.