US government request Apple for backdoor

[dZeus]

I can understand Apple's position on this and am glad they took a stance. If they give in they will be flooded with requests from governments to use that back door. Some, like the NSA, may try to leverage the back door as a permanent way to snoop on people.

It would cause a serious loss of faith in the platform and mass exodus of every security and privacy conscious person. It's bad business. It's bad security. And, despite the circumstances, it's the right decision to make.

Most of the big tech companies have been taking this same kind of stance, and I'm glad they are.

Don't you think that the NSA already has a backdoor in OSX and iOS?
I'd expect something similar to be present as is the case for Microsoft Windows products, i.e. a NSA signing key that is accepted when installing OS updates (the famous 'NSAKEY' in Windows). Since NSA are very competent at hijacking network streams, they can insert their custom payload when a target system is using the built-in OS update functionality.

Inclusion of such a key would be requested through a national security letter, and there's no opportunity for the company to talk let alone admit receiving such a request, without breaking the law.
National security letters with these type of requests are much rumoured to be the cause for Lavabit and Truecrypt developers to wind down their operations (as the only way out on not wanting to comply with the requests).

So requests by the FBI like the current one to Apple, would suggest that agencies don't want to need to use their current backdoor for 'simple' things like access to repossessed phones and computers. I can think of some possible reasons for this:
- usage of the backdoor would become too frequent, driving up costs and increasing the knowledge of its existence among targets
- unless automatic OS updates are on, deployment of the custom payload may need to be triggered before repossession (a user may still need to consent to the update, so for optimal camouflage, the NSA would need to piggy-back their custom payload with a real OS update)

As for security and privacy conscious people, I would expect them not to use any devices and/or software written by American organisations, or developers in other countries with equally invasive government laws. That probably includes a large majority of countries in the world by now, with a clear tendency of this situation deteriorating further as time goes by.
i.e. a security-minded person is not going to choose a smartphone based on OS vendor (Apple/Google/MS), but rather would not carry a smartphone at all. Maybe at best consider an old dumb-phone with minimal integrated sensors (as snooping on calls doesn't require access to the phone itself, just to the network).

[UtwigMU]

I read up a bit on it:
- They already have the backups from iCloud
- It's a government issued work phone and only last couple of days are not synced
- The private phones of the attackers are already destroyed
- FBI wants backdoor for other cases and is using this high profile case to get it

[Jammrock]

Don't you think that the NSA already has a backdoor in OSX and iOS?

There's a difference between "being given a backdoor" and "making your own backdoor." The NSA is known to have the resources to make their own. They just don't like to share that with other departments, because that would mean admitting they do. They are fans of obscurity.

As for the who writes the software, there is no major OS that hasn't been touched by US or other first world nations. And if you think an an agency like the NSA can't get to your OS just because it wasn't written in the US...

[dZeus]

There's a difference between "being given a backdoor" and "making your own backdoor." The NSA is known to have the resources to make their own. They just don't like to share that with other departments, because that would mean admitting they do. They are fans of obscurity.

As for the who writes the software, there is no major OS that hasn't been touched by US or other first world nations. And if you think an an agency like the NSA can't get to your OS just because it wasn't written in the US...

The national security letters pretty much equate to 'mandate to being given a backdoor', just like the FBI request. And likely the same for the NSAKEY in Windows (as much as having a second or even a third signing key in Windows using the descriptor 'NSAKEY' being explained away as a 'normal' presence).

[Jammrock]

NSL's are less overbearing than they used to. Still overbearing, but not insanely so. Larger companies like Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, etc. have the means to fight back.

And NSL's do not equate to "give me a backdoor." An active investigation is required for an NSL, and that NSL only pertains to the case. So the NSA can't just tell Microsoft, Apple, Google, Linux Foundation, etc. to require a backdoor in an OS.

I'll admit that some NSL's have been overly broad. But in today's more security centric environment I doubt any of the large companies would submit to a backdoor level NSL. They would take that to court. Or I hope they would.

[Dr Mordrid]

Apples concern isn't necessarily the US govt but that other less friendly govts will see this as precedent for access or pressuring them on issues unrelated to security.

[paulw]

Apples concern isn't necessarily the US govt but that other less friendly govts will see this as precedent for access or pressuring them on issues unrelated to security.

If Apple gives the FBI the back door OS them Apple will receive lots of requests from the US Gov groups with court orders demanding Apple do it again. If the do it now they set the precedence for next time..

[Jammrock]

If Apple gives the FBI the back door OS them Apple will receive lots of requests from the US Gov groups with court orders demanding Apple do it again. If the do it now they set the precedence for next time..

Yes, which is why the tech industry, especially those who make and distribute OSs, are backing Apple. No tech company wants this precedence set in an unfavorable way.

[cjolley]

It strikes me that if Apple blocks the precedent the the FBI sill just send them a National Security Letter to get it done.
So while they might not get the precedent they are likely to get the phone cracked anyway. We just won't hear about it.