Where next for my home cinema, home automation!

[Fat Tone]

Hi

I haven't updated my home cinema for a while and as a result it languishes a bit. We recently got an Echo Dot and linked it to some Philips Hue-alike bulbs and our Nest Learniing Thermostat, so I am interested in what to do next.

Here's what we have:

TV: a LG Smart TV, is a 47", 3D with wifi, can be controlled via the normal remote, the Magic Remote (which we have) and an Android App.
Receiver: It's a Yamaha, about 10yrs old, has a remote, lots of inputs including optical, but no HDMI. The radio is FM, not DAB, no Ethernet. Will do all sort of surround sound processing.
Speakers: a pair of Keff bookshelf speakers, a centre speaker, a powered Yamaha Sub, and a couple of picture frame rear speakers that aren't connected but could be.
Sources: a PS4 (also have the PS VR), a Virgin Media TIVO, an Amazon Fire TV - there's something on there called KODI too, whatever that is!

Physical links: The PS4 is connected to the Receiver by Optical, the others aren't.

Home Automation:
Echo Dot
Nest Learning Thermostat (linked)
Light Bulbs (linked)
Haven't managed to link the TV yet
Haven't managed to make the Dot control the Fire TV yet, but they are kinda linked

Accounts: The main Amazon account is my wife's, and I am linked to her account. The FireTV is in my name. The Nest was in my name, I had to change the email address to hers before the Nest would link to the Dot.

What I would like to do:

Have all my devices use the amp nicely (the TV speakers are pretty rubbish)
Be able to access our music collection
play DAB radio (although the Echo will stream it for us already, so maybe that's all I need)
voice control Amp, TV and TIVO.


My very early browsing suggests a Denon Receiver at £500 (but with a flaky Alexa app) or a Logitech Harmony Hub at £80.

Grateful for any suggestions where to go with this.

Cheers

Tony/

[VJ]

Most receivers with network connections can be controlled via an app and often also be integrated into a home automation setup. Some receivers have dedicated serial ports for integration with home automation hardware.

I've been playing a bit with it: my lights and thermostats at home are EIB/KNX, connected to a Loxone Miniserver which offers integration of various devices. I'm trying to get it to work with my Squeezebox music players and kodi, but it takes quite a bit of work. I managed but am still not satisfied. I now would like to integrate my LG tv, but have some issues with its protocol.
There are a number of softwares (e.g. EventGhost, Openremote) and even distributions (HomeAssistant, OpenHab) that allow control to be centered around a computer.

However, it seems your question is less home automation and more media related.

Using HDMI-CEC, you tv should be able to switch on the receiver, set its source correctly and send volume controls to the amplifier's volume control. At my parents' place, their Samsung TV did just that with their 6 year old amplifier. So getting the TV and the receiver to work together from the remote is a no-brainer.

How is your media collection stored?

[VJ]

Just wanted to add...

In my experience, there are many aspects that work quite well, albeit rather isolated. Everything is now so centered around operating things with your phone, but does that make it smart? I tried using my LG TV with the app, but somehow I still prefer a real dedicated remote. Then, if you control everything from your phone, but everything is with a separate app, is it smart?

First thing you'll have to do is check what the easiest way is to integrate it all: is there some common interface? If e.g. they all interface with the Echo (and you use it), it seems to make sense to center it around that.

To use the amp nicely, I suspect you mean using it as if it is not there (switches on automatically, selects inputs, ...). HDMI CEC should take care of that when it concerns TV/dvd/blueray and I think even PS4. Bear in mind that the concept changed (which I learned at my parents when they got a new TV). It used to be that you connect everything to the amplifier and the amplifier controls it all. While still possible that way, it may make it easier to connect it all to the TV, and connect the TV via the HDMI-ARC to the amplifier. (in my parents case, this allows the TV to control the amplifer, set top box and blueray, much easier than everything centered around the amplifier in their case; the Samsung TV theoretically should be able to control things connected to the amplifier but it was easier this way).
Accessing the music collection may be very possible with a new receiver, but bear in mind that if it is on a NAS, it may be quite slow to browse and perhaps not too user friendly if you have the TV off. Not sure about amplifiers with DAB, but most have internet streaming, so most likely you will have the channels that are on DAB via internet. So the media aspects should not be too difficult in getting. And you might also be able to browse photos, either with the amplifier or with the TV. Integrating it with thermostats or lights is where it gets messy... And I have no idea on the voice control.

Oh, one thing about logitech: Harmony Link will stop working. Logitech is pulling the plug:

https://community.logitech.com/s/question/0D55A0000745EkC/harmony-link-eos-or-eol?s1oid=00Di0000000j2Ck&OpenCommentForEdit=1&s1nid=0DB31000000Go9U&emkind=chatterCommentNotification&s1uid=0055A0000092Uwu&emtm=1510088039436&fromEmail=1&s1ext=0

They will compensate people who bought it recently, but do not get it second-hand. The Hub is a different product, which supersedes the link. Not sure how easy it is to use, but it is a way to control multiple devices (tv, amplifier, ...). I made a full configuration for my parents several years ago for their programmable touchscreen Marantz remote, and the nice thing is that you can really customize the behaviour (I suspect Logitech will be similar, but don't know). with HDMI-CEC, you are stuck with what the manufacturers allow.

In my place, I have an app that controls the lights/thermostat (but everything can be controlled with wall-mounted controls as well). The central system for that is a Loxone miniserver, which supports generic network communication. This allowed me to add music players (Squeezebox) to the app and also Kodi control. As my amplifier lacks a network port, I control it via its serial port using a PC. On the pc, I have a piece of software (EventGhost), which I use as a central point from which Kodi and the amplifier are controlled; the loxone miniserver communicates with them via EventGhost. I'm still not too happy about it all and want to integrate it more. And I actually would like an old fashioned remote with buttons to control everything, so I'm thinking of adding a Keene ip-ir interface.

So some solution like a Harmony Hub may not be a bad idea: it may not offer the freedom of control a more custom system would offer, but it should work without much issues. I'm not considering it as the alternative would allow me also to control lights, Loxone unfortunately does not integrate with the harmony hub.

[Fat Tone]

Thanks for all the info VJ.

Unfortunately my current receiver doesn't have any HDMI inputs so it does limit my options. I am leaning towards a Harmony Hub as a cheap solution that should get me most of the way there. The system you have put together sound very complicated and definitely 'enthusiast' rather than consumer. Well done

I think I will save the money and not buy an expensive new amp, there's nothing wrong with the one I have apart from it is 'of its time'. As of today the Amazon Echo Show has dropped to £130 from £200, so that is in Wifey's Christmas stocking along with a wifi Smart Plug for another £10!

I also think I can put my music collection on my Amazon Fire TV via a thumb drive so that should be sorted too.

Cheers, T.

[VJ]

I can fully see it. Besides, even if you would get a new amplifier, you would still need some general remote/controller to control it all. So in the end you would probably need to get something along the lines of a universal remote or so. The Harmony Hub fulfills that function as well.
You can most likely program the Harmony Hub that it has scenarios (eg. switch on TV + switch on amplifier + set amplifier source to TV), so that fully negates the need for a new amplifier (if it concerns control). That would be similar to how my parents had it earlier, and it works very well. Takes maybe a bit of time to set the scenario fully, but it should not be too difficult. Double check maybe if all your devices are on the compatibility list (or if people had success with them on forums).

Regarding the music collection... you could stream it using the TV...


My system at the moment is not really integrated. I mean, I can control it all from the Loxone app, which runs on my mobile, but somehow I don't like to use a phone for it and it is not integrated in scenarios or so. So that is why I like to wire in some remote control. It could be either some IR-to-IP solution (Keene), although I already have limited such possibilities at the moment using my squeezebox. Another option is to get the old programmable remote from my parents (they don't use it anymore). I'll see... It works good enough but I feel something is wrong to make it really useful. Basically, don't fall in the trap of trying to automate too much, as it not necessarily makes things simpler.