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**UtwigMU** · 6 August 2018, 18:42

Ars has become a totally cucked leftist hole. It's like the sites that would tell enthusiast to get a Dell 15 years ago. Windows 10 updates are great for you, zomg Trump is a fascist, every time you diverge from the echo chamber opinion in news comments (I mean technical, not politics I never commented on any political articles) you get down-voted. It's full of leftists who haven't realized they are "conservative" establishment yet. The guy who founded it received good education from good American uni and thinks Google was in the right in firing James Damore. How can you honestly see yourself on the side of good and be anti-free speech and opinions based on solid arguments. The scientifical fact hating SJWs are the new flat earthers. It's one thing to disagree, but firing people for their opinions is totalitarian tier. The only good part there are some knowledgable old-timers in the tech forums, some of which still write good technical articles for the front page.

**Dr Mordrid** · 6 August 2018, 21:11

So far Eric Berger hasn't been bit by the SJW bug, but then NewSpace etc. have been keeping him fairly busy.

**KRSESQ** · 7 August 2018, 09:30

Originally posted by UtwigMU View Post

Ars has become a totally cucked leftist hole. It's like the sites that would tell enthusiast to get a Dell 15 years ago. Windows 10 updates are great for you, zomg Trump is a fascist, every time you diverge from the echo chamber opinion in news comments (I mean technical, not politics I never commented on any political articles) you get down-voted. It's full of leftists who haven't realized they are "conservative" establishment yet. The guy who founded it received good education from good American uni and thinks Google was in the right in firing James Damore. How can you honestly see yourself on the side of good and be anti-free speech and opinions based on solid arguments. The scientifical fact hating SJWs are the new flat earthers. It's one thing to disagree, but firing people for their opinions is totalitarian tier. The only good part there are some knowledgable old-timers in the tech forums, some of which still write good technical articles for the front page.

WTF are you even raving about?

firing people for their opinions is totalitarian tier

Are you telling me that as a business owner I shouldn't have final absolute say in who I employ?

Are you suggesting that if I have an employee who casts my business in a negative light, I should not have the right to terminate that employee?

So the employee has "First Amendment Rights?" Well, SO DO I. If the employee has the right to expose him/herself as an obnoxious, ignorant prick, I have the right to say "hit the bricks, a$$hole."

WTF kind of authoritarian are you to suggest otherwise?

**Dr Mordrid** · 7 August 2018, 11:04

Planetary scientist, co-founder NASA KSC SwampWorks

Dr. Phil Metzger @DrPhiltill
At the inaugural @SpaceX Mars Workshop, planning how to put humans on Mars, then how to have 100s living there. So exciting!
11:23 AM - Aug 7, 2018

**UtwigMU** · 7 August 2018, 14:28

I'm not familiar with political discrimination laws in USA. What is the difference in firing someone because he's a national, religious or sexual minority and someone who is a political minority?

Could you fire someone for wearing a niqab to work because according to you it reflects badly on your business in USA? Just hypothetical question, nothing against - I have a coworker who wears niqab and we get along really well, drink coffee sometimes. Here they would have to prove that he was performing badly and he could sue them. That he was critical of their internal processes is not enough grounds to fire someone. After 10 years or so (judges here are predominately women who would be biased, courts work but very slow), once it would get to national top level or European Court of Human Rights, they'd have to rehire him, pay him salary and his attorney fees. Smart businesses usually settle, I was involved in a case where my customers (5 people shop) didn't renew employee's contract. She caused them so many problems that they were offering her cash to leave them alone.

Worker protection is very high here - to the point I and my business owner friends find it too high. One of my friends is a lawyer who specializes in labour law. Very different from USA.

**KRSESQ** · 7 August 2018, 15:05

Most places in the US these days support "at will" employment, meaning employers can fire anyone for any reason. "Worker protections" went the way of the labor unions. There are exceptions. I can't refuse to hire, or fire, someone solely for their sex or race or religious or political beliefs. If their religious beliefs somehow interfere with their job performance, I must make a reasonable effort to accommodate their beliefs to minimize conflicts.

(This has nothing to do with political correctness. It's the decent - dare I say Christian - thing to do.)

If, on the other hand, their behavior flagrantly violates the terms of their employment (and I set the terms of their employment), then I have much more leeway.

Now, as a business owner, I do have a right to refuse service to anyone. But it's a right that a wise business owner will exercise only in extreme cases. Personally, turning away customers for ANY reason is a very expensive luxury that I have never been able to afford. If I were to turn away customers in a way that made ME look like a prick, then I might as well make it look like an electrical fire. (See "Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission")

Otherwise employers in the US are pretty much free to do whatever they want.

**Dr Mordrid** · 7 August 2018, 15:54

Partial list of participants,

SpaceX
Tesla
NASA HQ
JPL/Caltech
NASA AMES
NASA AMES Bay Area Environmental Research Institute
NASA Glenn
NASA JSC
Aerospace Corporation
European Space Agency
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
Mohammed Bin Rashid Space Centre (MBRSC) UAE
EchoStar
Aeronautical Systems, Inc
Lunar and Planetary Labortory
Caterpillar Inc
Honeybee Robotics
Maxar
Bechtel Corporation
Ball Aerospace
Schlumberger
Freestyle Analytical & Quantitative Services, LLC
Planetary Science Institute
MIT
Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics U. Colorado, Boulder
Arizona State University
University of Arizona ASU Research Enterprise (ASURE)
Colorado School of Mines (Space Resources Program)
University of Colorado, Boulder
University of Florida
Brown University
University of Central Florida
University of Western Ontario

VJ · 8 August 2018, 04:43

Originally posted by KRSESQ View Post

If, on the other hand, their behavior flagrantly violates the terms of their employment (and I set the terms of their employment), then I have much more leeway.

Can you freely set the terms of employment? Because here in many EU countries, you are very restricted in which terms are allowed as terms of employment (the idea was that it is to prevent discrimination, but it limits more than just that).

Doc (back on topic)

I do agree with the quote that Musk has been more working on getting to Mars than what to do once you get there. But to counter that criticism: you have to start from something.

Nice list of participants!

**KRSESQ** · 8 August 2018, 10:15

Originally posted by VJ View Post

Can you freely set the terms of employment? Because here in many EU countries, you are very restricted in which terms are allowed as terms of employment (the idea was that it is to prevent discrimination, but it limits more than just that.

As long as the terms of employment don't violate anti-discrimination or workplace safety or child-labor laws or any criminal statutes, I can do almost whatever I want. (I'm not necessarily saying that's a good thing.)

**Dr Mordrid** · 8 August 2018, 17:01

Correct. There are several protected classes, often more at the state level than by the federal govt., so you cannot fire based on gender, race etc. but for unlisted things you're pretty much at the whim of the employer.

From SpaceX's Mars Workshop

NASA's Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate

Thomas Zurbuchen âœ” @Dr_ThomasZ
#NASA is committed to sending humans deeper into space than ever before. By collaborating with commercial, international & government partners, our species can achieve this goal even sooner. How we make that happen was the topic of todays workshop where NASA reps were present.

https://twitter.com/dr_thomasz/statu...18499384520706

**Marshmallowman** · 9 August 2018, 19:40

lets move this discussion to VJ's thread

MURC

http://www.murc.ws/showthread.php?73686-Where-do-we-go-from-here&p=700401#post700401

I don't want to pollute this interesting thread with static

**KRSESQ** · 9 August 2018, 20:39

Relax. I think we're done.

Announcement

SpaceX holding closed access "Mars Workshops"

SpaceX holding closed access "Mars Workshops"

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