handguns

[UtwigMU]

One of my long time clients, an owner of consulting business is into sports shooting. He explained me how gun laws work here and talked me into taking a gun safety course. The procedure here is:
- 2 day gun safety course
- medical checkup with psychiatric evaluation
- become member of a sports shooting club, then you can take parts in range practice and shooting competition
- permit to posses handguns and non-auto rifles
- with permit you are allowed to purchase and own handguns. you are required to store or carry bullets and gun separately and safely

There are actually really decent gun shops here that I didn't know about. I applied for the course next week.

The course consists of theory on legislation, handling, practice on assembling and disassembling, cleaning and shooting at the range.

I served 7 months in then conscript Slovenian army, so I know the basics.

After I get my permit I'll ask for recommendations.

[Dr Mordrid]

While studying the legalistics also start thinking about what you'll use it for. Clearly, a target pistol is far different than one used for active defense - and even then at-home defense is often better managed by a shotgun.

Just racking a pump shotgun sends many home Invaders bailing out the nearest window.

[Umfriend]

Here is a short description for 15 countries: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-gun-laws.html

[UtwigMU]

While studying the legalistics also start thinking about what you'll use it for.

This is why I'm asking, you're the expert, what do you recommend to try?

[dZeus]

While studying the legalistics also start thinking about what you'll use it for. Clearly, a target pistol is far different than one used for active defense - and even then at-home defense is often better managed by a shotgun.

Just racking a pump shotgun sends many home Invaders bailing out the nearest window.

If you intend to go the shotgun route and actually use it for hunting in Europe, I'd recommend an over-under (or if you want to be really classy, a side-by-side).
Note that I have no idea about Slovenia, but to get licensed in NL to do hunting, you need to pass a pretty elaborate exam on knowledge on species (which ones can be hunted, and when), as well as be certified marksman with a shotgun (exam at a range).

Local police will perform surprise visits about once per 1-2 years to validate that you keep your shotgun and ammo in a gun safe that is securely anchored into a wall of your house.

Also you need to have been granted to hunt on private grounds (e.g. a farmer's estate). This is quite hard to obtain, as these are limited and you need to know the right people to be granted this right. In France this is much easier, as there are public hunting grounds (I guess the French revolution was a bit more thorough in getting rid of aristocratic privileges).

[UtwigMU]

Took the course and passed the shooting at the range with Glock 17, have practical and theoretical exam next week. Here this is part of requirements for permit:

- possesion not allowed to carry, transport - for people who inherited or were gifted weapons:
theoretical exam. There were two 45-60y old women who inherited weapons on the course with us.

- permit (hunting, sports, collecting)
practical and theoretical exam
medical checkup and psychiatric evaluation
no violent crimes, not on drugs, not alcoholic, must be reliable

required to store weapons and ammo separately and under lock
can transport weapons and ammo separately in containers but not carry (loaded)
can carry at home or on enclosed property
can apply for permit and purchase one weapon per permit. Can purchase up to 5000 ammo for weapon for which you have permit. Collectors can have unlimited amount of weapons per permit and also auto weapons but only not in production weapons

safety permit allows you to carry but you need to prove your life is in danger from unknown people - very seldomly given, less than 1% of all permits are safety permits

If you have sports weapon and you are attacked, you can defend yourself but it must be proportionate (multiple attackers, stronger attackers, armed attackers). Many things fall under sports weapons, 9mm pistol is the most popular at the moment but there are also revolvers, rifles and semi-auto rifles (you can legally buy auto disabled AK 47, instructor brought AR 15)

To keep sports weapons you need to have club membership (club in most towns) and take part in couple of competitions. Ranges are open every day and if you have a permit you can come whenever you like.

I liked the Glock, not as much recoil as I expected. The people at the course were 30-60 normal decent people, no Rambo wannabes. The community at local range seems in the Doc Mordrid age bracket and are very chill people.

[Dr Mordrid]

Quite different here in MI

Long arms: must be 18 and no purchase permit, but you must pass an instant background check & fill out a federal form. Used long arms are still 18+ but otherwise unregulated (state jurisdiction).

Handguns (incl. semi-auto UZI etc): must be 21 under federal law and under state law you must have a purchase permit new or used. Also the background check and fill out the federal form. A concealed carry permit counts as a pre-approved purchase permit.

Open Carry: a legally posessed firearm can be carried openly (visible to bystanders) with no permit.

Cowboy style double holsters with Colt .45's? Why not? Rifle or shotgun on a sling? Sure. Hunting long arm, semi-auto UZI, Saiga 12 etc? Yup.

Concealed Pistol Permit (CPL): pass a background check, meet the exclusions (not the sublect of a protection order, a criminal, or judged mentally ill) and take a CPL class. If the instructor thinks you're twitchy he can decline to certify. Renewed every 5 years.

You need a CPL to carry a loaded firearm while driving. Without one it must be unloaded & cased in the trunk.

Exclusion zones: a business or courthouse which posts "no firearms," schools (unless you have a CPL and carry openly - and then they can still opt-out), bars, venues of over 5,000 capacity.

Interesting places where you can legally carry: courthouses where the chief judge allows it, the State Capitol in Lansing.

[UtwigMU]

Pistols are very geeky topic, a bit like cameras:
striker vs hammer
polymer vs metal
5" vs 6"
different trigger weights
single action vs double action
do you want to do dynamic or precision targets

A lot to ponder. Here Glocks, CZ Shadows, Walther PPQs seem to be most popular.

[Dr Mordrid]

I do like my SIGs; P250 hammer, P320 striker convertibles, but also have a Ruger Alaskan .44 mag wheelgun and several others. A slightly modified P320 is now the US military service pistol; M17 (full size) and M18 (compact). Largest: MR BFR* 500 Magnum revolver.

*Magnum Research Big F'ing Revolver - big game hunting

[cjolley]

Oklahoma just passed a carry law that allows concealed or open carry with no permit or training and no State background check.
The Federal background check system has so many holes in it this means basically anyone can carry.
The Democrats in the State legislature tried to add an amendment to allow carry in the State Capitol, but the brave Republican legislature declined.

PS, on the bright side, anyone, including businesses, can prohibit firearms on their own property still.

[MultimediaMan]

PS, on the bright side, anyone, including businesses, can prohibit firearms on their own property still.

Slight correction: PS, on the bright side, anyone, including businesses, can prohibit firearms in their buildings/premises. Parking lots, right of ways, and other public access is exempted.

[Dr Mordrid]

Here most businesses don't bar firearms. There have been several cases of armed citizens dropping bank robbers etc. as they were spinning up to shoot up the place.

Example was 2 yrs ago in a north suburb bank robbery. Citizen stayed chill until the perp started putting the gun in victims faces and escalating his rants. Soon as he had an opportunity and his field of fire cleared he drew and dropped the perp cold.

Looked on as a key to the city event.

[cjolley]

Slight correction: PS, on the bright side, anyone, including businesses, can prohibit firearms in their buildings/premises. Parking lots, right of ways, and other public access is exempted.

True. It wouldn't make sense to prohibit in parking lots or driveways just for practical reasons.

[Dr Mordrid]

We handle prohibited spaces by having gun safes welded into the vehicles. Open, insert, close. Keyed and biometric.

[cjolley]

We handle prohibited spaces by having gun safes welded into the vehicles. Open, insert, close. Keyed and biometric.

Here it's more likely to be just the glove box.