Atlas V: Boeing Starliner Orbital Flight Test-2 (OFT-2 today)

[Dr Mordrid]

Yeah, Starliner is not what we need for today's manned missions. I costs way too much and is a dead end as far as usefulness to the ISS and whatever comes after.

I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX offered an LEO version of Dragon XL, the large cargo vehicle they plan to use for the Gateway lunar station. At least until Starship is in routine service.

On the other hand, Starship is larger in volume than ISS or these new space stations. It could almost serve as an as needed station.

[MultimediaMan]

I think all of what you mentioned is going to delay the Starliner crew flight test (CFT) at least a year, perhaps longer. It really is a clusterfrack.

If CFT slips to 2024+ NASA should just cut Starliner loose and toss some money at Sierra Space for the Dream Chaser spaceplane. The cargo version, DC-100, should be flying within a year. The crew version, DC-200, is targeting 2026. The national security version, DC-300, comes later.

Yeah, Starliner is not what we need for today's manned missions. I costs way too much and is a dead end as far as usefulness to the ISS and whatever comes after.

[Dr Mordrid]

I think all of what you mentioned is going to delay the Starliner crew flight test (CFT) at least a year, perhaps longer. It really is a clusterfrack.

If CFT slips to 2024+ NASA should just cut Starliner loose and toss some money at Sierra Space for the Dream Chaser spaceplane. The cargo version, DC-100, should be flying within a year. The crew version, DC-200, is targeting 2026. The national security version, DC-300, comes later.

[MultimediaMan]

Starliner has got a long way to go. The "Doghouse" (Service Module) has really got them in the Doghouse.

But I think the toughest issue is with the cooling loops in the capsule; those are the bits that NASA is going to nitpick. The STS (Space Shuttle) had numerous problems over the years with it's cabin and payload cooling loops. Likewise, the ISS has had it's fair share as well (all Ammonia based-coolants). NASA is not looking forward to dealing with a new generation of them.

The problems of the ammonia-based are well-understood; it is a very light, flammable, liquid, and readily absorbs water (which is a problem). It is a reactive compound and there are several metals which it should never be exposed to... Ammonia, is a weak conductor of electricity (Pure water is not a conductor), but can be very strongly conductive with only the smallest contamination of Chloride (Hydronium ions). This makes it really important to have a clean system free of materials which can contaminate it.

Most of the problems historically relate to contaminated coolant (Common prompt cooling failure #1) or incorrect charging/purging of the system (Common failure #2). In a humid place like Florida this is a real issue. The normal workaround is to heat the coolant and separate out the water; Even on a running system, a water extraction system must be present to ensure the function and continued operation of the cooling system. In Zero-G, water collection/ separation/ disposal is really hard to do and depending on how they designed it, may or may not be easy to remedy.

[Umfriend]

I found this: https://bstrategyhub.com/spacex-comp...-alternatives/ but, uhm, I don;t find this convincing.

[Umfriend]

Are there other parties that currently have some hope of competing with SpaceX?

[Dr Mordrid]

Let's run through the OFT-2 problem list (so far);

• 2 OMAC thruster failures, low chamber pressures.

• 2 RCS thruster failures during approach, low chamber pressures.

Almost makes you think they have a pressurization system problem. Makes the need for a complete redesign of the thruster system even more necessary.

• dodgy cooling loops, thought to be moisture that froze in a filter.

I believe these are ammonia cooling loops, like ISS, so what's water doing in there? Yet another moisture control problem.

• dodgy docking ring, which needed to be retracted and re-extended before approach and docking

Most of these problems occurred in the expendable service module, so they can't tear into it to find out what happened. Dragons service module is integrated into the capsule.

Given the need to totally redesign the thruster system and other items in the service module, I don't see Starliner flying people for another year or two.

[Dr Mordrid]

Starliner OFT-2 webcast begins today; May 19 at 1800 Eastern on NASA TV

https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive

https://youtu.be/21X5lGlDOfg

[Dr Mordrid]

Let's see if they can get it right this time...

Date: May 19, 2022
Time: 1824 Eastern
Pad: LC-41 Cape Canaveral Space Force Station
Booster: Atlas 5 N22
Vehicle landing: White Sands, New Mexico

[Dr Mordrid]

Starliner has been stacked on Atlas 5 for a launch attempt.

Apparently they patched it together enough to fly, swapping out the entire service module, but the valve system and plumbing need a redesign. Even if this is a successful test flight the crewed flight is going to take time.

And now this comes out, which leaves me speechless...

Reuters story

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/exclusive-boeing-clashes-with-key-supplier-ahead-starliner-spacecraft-launch-2022-05-11/

EXCLUSIVE Boeing clashes with key supplier ahead of Starliner spacecraft launch

> [Boeing blames Aerojet Rocketdyne for the valve problems]
>
The feud with Aerojet is not Boeing's first Starliner subcontractor quarrel. In 2017, Starliner had an accident during a ground test that forced the president of a different subcontractor to have his leg medically amputated. The subcontractor sued, and Boeing subsequently settled the case.
>

Edited 6 hours ago by DocM

[Dr Mordrid]

Boeing will be ready to send it up the day after it is donated to the Smithsonian's Udvar Hazy Museum of Flight...

And here comes an update.

Last we heard it could be as late as mid-2022, which would put the crewed test around December 2022 and the first operational mission in 2023.

----------

MEDIA ADVISORY M21-132

NASA, Boeing to Provide Update on Boeing’s Orbital Flight Test-2

NASA and Boeing will hold a joint teleconference at 2:30 p.m. EDT Tuesday, Oct. 19, to update media on the company’s CST-100 Starliner spacecraft. Teams will discuss work on the oxidizer isolation valve issue that was discovered ahead of the planned uncrewed Orbital Flight Test-2 (OFT-2) mission to the International Space Station in August.

Participants in the briefing will be:

Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program

John Vollmer, vice president and program manager, Boeing Commercial Crew Program

Michelle Parker, chief engineer, Boeing Space and Launch

Audio of the teleconference will stream live online at:

https://www.nasa.gov/live

To participate in the teleconference, media must contact ksc-newsroom@mail.nasa.gov by 1:30 p.m. Oct. 19 for the dial-in information.

The OFT-2 mission will launch Starliner on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida. Starliner will dock to the space station before returning to land in the western United States about a week later as part of an end-to-end test flight to prove the system is ready to fly crew.

Learn more about NASA’s Commercial Crew Program at:

https://www.nasa.gov/commercialcrew

-end-

[Dr Mordrid]

Boeing will be ready to send it up the day after it is donated to the Smithsonian's Udvar Hazy Museum of Flight... after which the "Udvar Hazy Museum of Flight" will be renamed the "Udvar Hazy Museum" to denote the change...

Agreed, this turkey will be lucky to survive CFT-2 if it launches, and that's a big if.

Atlas V is capped at 28 more launches before retirement, with most remaining birds dedicated to DoD and Amazon (for their Kuiper satellites), and there are no plans to human-rate Vulcan. Even if the 2 Starliners actually fly for NASA commercial missions are out due to there not being a 3rd vehicle as a backup and nothing to launch it with.

[MultimediaMan]

Boeing will be ready to send it up the day after it is donated to the Smithsonian's Udvar Hazy Museum of Flight... after which the "Udvar Hazy Museum of Flight" will be renamed the "Udvar Hazy Museum" to denote the change...

[Dr Mordrid]

Starliner OFT-2 in "fall of 2022" could put the Crewed Flight Test (CFT) in early 2023 and Starliner-1 in late summer of 2023.

With only 6 Crew Dragon missions currently under contract and Crew-5 in fall 2022 (now with 3 astronauts transferred from a Starliner mission), NASA needs to decide soon on contracting more Crew Dragon missions.

What a cluster-frack

Eric Berger ✓ @SciGuySpace (Ars Technica)
Here's the reality: Until the sticky valve root cause is found, there will be no credible date for and OFT-2 launch. It probably will be awhile. They have to disassemble the valves. I've heard dates ranging from early 2022, to May to Fall of 2022 for possible launches of OFT-2.

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1445805187726123011?t=_flYY-91leMrBwWxhAGTRg

[Dr Mordrid]

Oh, good Lord....

Michael Sheetz @thesheetztweetz (CNBC)
Nield: However, "there were some rather significant differences in how several safety issues were assessed between NASA and Boeing" before launch. "We got very close to launch without having identified the valve problem" with OFT-2.

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1441112228078374922