airlines woes

[UtwigMU]

Deutsche Gründlickeit ist leider vorbei.

[VJ]

Yes... but when I hear about the problems on German rail, it does not sound like a good alternative. At a project meeting, a team from Netherlands missed one connection due to delays and they ended up searching for and buying tickets while on the train and ended up changing 5 times. Some German colleagues mention that the "Deutsche gründlichkeit" is no longer what it used to be - one has both Dutch and German airports at more or less equal distance and prefers to go via the Netherlands to fly somewhere. It is actually one of the reasons we more often travel by car: even for work trips, we combine the journey with a weekend somewhere in Germany. Our next trip will be in October, combined with a meeting in Deventer .

[Umfriend]

Well, I did enjoy riding the Amtrak from SF to Denver, 39 hours...

[VJ]

Yes. :-)
Lufthansa already transferred back to the account that was used to buy the tickets (they did not ask me for another account). Fine for me, but something to be aware of if you need it.

Still, it was sad that my parents could not be there... not at the wedding (covid-restrictions) and not at the party. Actually, there was no-one from my family side. Still, a few friends managed to come as they flew with Wizzair from Charleroi.

Of course the whole thing has put my parents off of flying non-direct flights to Warsaw, and for some reason they claim to look forward to coming with a night train (Brussels-Berlin, which will next year be extended to split and continue to Prague and Warsaw). I don't get... why not just fly... they could even stay in the hotel at the airport for one night if it is too exhausting to travel to the airport and then by plane. Ah well, here's hoping they will come soon...

[Umfriend]

De aanhouder wint!

[VJ]

Amazingly, I got a reply! They accept the entire claim; apart from all costs, we also receive 250 euro damage compensation per person. I can start the procedure for the refund.

The website to do so gave errors, but I hope that will be resolved next week.

[Umfriend]

That reminds me of an old cartoon by Glasbergen. Someone making a call gets to a tape: "If you want to place a new order, press 1. If you want to inquire after the status of your order, press 2. If you want to cancel your order, press 5862147547713147."

[VJ]

The claim is filed with Swiss... It is funny how difficult those websites (both Swiss and Lufthansa) make it to file claims. You are required to include scans of all documents to prove your claim, but then they limit the size and number of pdfs you can upload. When it concerns a claim for 5 people, those limits really become problematic. Coincidence or not, but the first two times I tried to submit it, the website just returned an error.

[VJ]

Just received confirmation from the EU Online Dispute Resolution office: Lufthansa is correct that the operating airline is to handle damage claims.
But: we can file with Swiss at this time as there is no term set (the fact it was over a year ago does not matter). Accepting or rejecting the Lufthansa offer makes no difference regarding the damage claim from Swiss. They also told me that they contacted the German conciliation body and passed on that they can help if Swiss does not reply (theoretically they can only help for German companies or for flights that departed/landed in Germany, but Swiss tends to be cooperative with them).
My parents already sent me the power of attorney documents, so I can file the claim on their behalf. Here we go again...

[VJ]

Here the total claim is quite a bit more than that (over 3000 EUR in costs, not counting additional compensation)... It quickly add up when it concerns 5 people...

[UtwigMU]

We had a dispute with city over their claim of 180 EUR. We had to sue the city. Took 5 years, we settled (city did what we requested, we paid own lawyer costs).

[VJ]

After I got the mail with the Lufthansa reply, I mailed to Swiss (to ask if it is still possible to file a claim), and flagged it with the EU's online dispute resolution body.
I just got a reply from Swiss that I can file the claim (not sure if they properly read my question - as supports usually don't, but I have a written document stating I can file). Let's get started for another year?

[Umfriend]

I don;t really know about these things but am under the impression that consumer protection vis-a-vis airliners has greatly increased over the past 20 years. The written complaint, imho, is a very good move. The only real downside, I guess, is that you are forced (already though) to spend more time on such an affair than is warranted given the damages.

And yes, get an open file with all parties.

[VJ]

That 1 person got the Belgian ombudsman involved, and got a full refund for all costs made as well as damages.

And we got a reply! Lufthansa finally replied the German conciliation body. They offer to pay back the plane tickets and phone costs, but not the hotel cost in Warsaw (one night was charged for late cancellation), nor the train cost from Zürich to Brussels (this is the biggest cost), nor any compensation. Their explanation is that Swiss operated the flight, so Lufthansa is not responsible for this. They quote the EU regulation, which states that it is the operating airline - of course such detail is not on their website that explains the passenger's rights. In addition, I've learned that if the plane ticket mentions the operating airline, then this implies that that is also the contracted airline, so officially Lufthansa - which sold us the tickets - is not even the contracted airline!

How are you to know as a customer? It seems logical to assume that the seller is the contact point. Of course, thanks to their swift (!) replies, we are now past any term for filing a complaint with Swiss.

The German conciliation body allows us to accept or refuse this offer. Upon refusal, they will study the case and make an assessment - so basically they did not do anything other than passing it on to Lufthansa. If they would have checked it, they could have told me the complaint had to be to Swiss. And now the biggest joke: from their email, if both parties agree with that assessment, their job is done. If one party does not agree with the new assessment, there is nothing left for them to do (and Lufthansa is also no longer bound by their current offer). What?! So basically if I reject, Lufthansa can just reject any offer from the conciliation body and that ends it.

I have written a complaint to the European Office for Dispute Resolution; this is just making a mockery of passengers' rights.

So BIG lesson: file the complaint with the operating airline... or better yet: with every party involved.

[VJ]

My parents were with a group of 5 in total that booked with Lufthansa + 1 person that booked with TUI.
So far no reply from Lufthansa, but Swiss (who operated the flight) replied to the 1 person that booked with TUI that the flight was delayed for safety reasons, and that because of that they are not responsible for people missing their connections - it is their own fault. So it does look like Swiss is going to play it dirty.