Such thing as a diesel hybrid?

[TnT]

I'm not a car person and don't keep up on that type of stuff (heck, I don't even own a car). But I was wondering if there is a hybrid engine out there that uses diesel. With the rise of biodiesel it seems the way to go from atleast a marketing standpoint.

[Marshmallowman]

Well their are certainly plenty of prototypes around.

Did you not try googleing hyrbid and diesel

[Dr Mordrid]

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66949,00.html

[Brian Ellis]

The French are working on it but are still a long way from starting production. I've had a coupla threads in one of my forum boards on the subject:

http://www.cypenv.org/smf/index.php?topic=71.0

http://www.cypenv.org/smf/index.php?topic=61.0

The long and the short of it is that the diesel lends iteslf poorly to hybrid design and is more polluting (even if CO2 emissions may be marginally less).

[Nowhere]

One of the French car producers could finally get any B-class hybrid (of any type). Or even A-class...

[TnT]

@ Marshmallowman, yeah yeah yeah

Thanks for the reads.

[MultimediaMan]

From a thermal efficiency standpoint, Diesels far outstrip a gasoline engine. They are not nearly as dirty-running as they were 20 years ago, thanks to modern fuel delivery systems and more modern fuels.

It has been demonstrated that a fixed RPM diesel can be made to power a hybrid by being used only to run accessory systems (Heat and A/C) and to charge the batteries, with less emissions than a variable-RPM Gasoline ICE.

From an engineering standpoint, it is much easier to design and build fixed a RPM engine than to try and build an engine which is efficient over a wider RPM Range, particularly in the areas of emissions and fuel consumption.

[Fluff]

Is it not true that diesel engines require alot more energy to start up than petrol equivalents. Or is it irrelevant?
Diesel

Petrol

[Brian Ellis]

From a thermal efficiency standpoint, Diesels far outstrip a gasoline engine. They are not nearly as dirty-running as they were 20 years ago, thanks to modern fuel delivery systems and more modern fuels.

It has been demonstrated that a fixed RPM diesel can be made to power a hybrid by being used only to run accessory systems (Heat and A/C) and to charge the batteries, with less emissions than a variable-RPM Gasoline ICE.

From an engineering standpoint, it is much easier to design and build fixed a RPM engine than to try and build an engine which is efficient over a wider RPM Range, particularly in the areas of emissions and fuel consumption.

Yup, but as I stated in the cited thread, such a system would be very heavy (the electric motors would have to be much larger than in a hybrid; the generator, as well, would have to be dimensioned to provide the average energy required by the car). OTOH, the batteries could be lighter than with an EV, as they would not need to provide the difference of power for more than is necessary to climb Pike's Peak or the Col du Grand Saint-Bernard at full throttle. Otherwise, I agree the DE makes MUCH more sense than a diesel-hybrid, although both would be more polluting than a petrol (gas)-hybrid (CO, NOx, SO2, HC, particles), even with a particle filter.

[TnT]

Otherwise, I agree the DE makes MUCH more sense than a diesel-hybrid, although both would be more polluting than a petrol (gas)-hybrid (CO, NOx, SO2, HC, particles), even with a particle filter.

I'm thinking for biodiesel which burns way cleaner (only slightly higher in SO2 but way lower in all other emissions). That's why I figure it would be more fitting than a gas-hybrid.

[Dr Mordrid]

Diesel Emissions Reduction Act of 2005;

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/big_rig_cleanup/diesel-emissions-reduction-act.html

"Clean Diesel" factsheet;

http://www.dieselforum.org/meet-clean-diesel/what-is-clean-diesel/clean-diesel-facts/

* Beginning in 2007, clean diesel trucks and buses will have reduced both particulate matter (PM) and nitrogen oxides (NOx) by 98% from 1988 levels – a virtual elimination of these emissions from on-highway engines.

* According to the Department of Energy, a 30% penetration of clean diesel technology in the U.S. passenger vehicle market by 2020 would reduce net crude oil imports by 350,000 barrels per day.

[Brian Ellis]

* Beginning in 2007, clean diesel trucks and buses will have reduced both particulate matter (PM) and nitrogen oxides (NOx) by 98% from 1988 levels – a virtual elimination of these emissions from on-highway engines.

The filters cost $6,000 upwards and are ~30 cm diameter and ~1 m long. Hardly suitable for cars and not scalable, either. As for PM, they are very effective for the large particles but they do zilch for the small particles (<1 µm) which most easily enter respiratory tracts.

* According to the Department of Energy, a 30% penetration of clean diesel technology in the U.S. passenger vehicle market by 2020 would reduce net crude oil imports by 350,000 barrels per day.