What is Christmas to you?

[Brian Ellis]

I'm curious.

Multiple answers possible

[Jessterw]

Well it certainly isn't Jesus' actual birthday and I don't think it's become devoid of all Christian meaning. Saying it has become a pagan festival is somewhat amusing given the origins of the date and many of the current traditions (as in how do you become what you've always been), nevermind that there's nothing pagan about the origins of Santa.

And bah to bah humbug.

So I guess it might be obvious which ones I picked Of course that doesn't mean I celebrate it for those reasons or really care about them, just doesn't change what it was and has become.

[az]

It's become overexploited by firms, but it's also a very great day for kids and for the whole family. Of course it's a welcome break from day-to-day life and work, and the great food (booze? bah! there's 364 other days in the year I can get drunk.) is welcome either. But I really like think of it as a time of love and peace. It is THE family holiday.

I'm not christian, so even though I know it's supposed to be a symbolic day commemorating the birth of JC, I don't think of him on this day any more than any other day. And don't any christian dare tell me I am not eligible for christmas as an atheist/agnostic!

This year I've invited a few very good friends over who don't live in Berlin anymore, and seeing as we all don't have families of our own yet (of course we have parents, but we have no kids, and by coincidence we're even all singles at the moment) we'll be our own family on that day, sitting at the fireplace and eating christmas treats.

[Dr Mordrid]

A symbolic day that commemorates both His birth and Christian suffrage (it was moved from March to avoid Roman persecution).

Its attraction to children is obvious; DUH!

>Commercialization follows two things: certainty of celebration and > population. Yes; there are twice as many commercials then when I was a kid. There are also twice a many people and twice as many stores competing for their attention. The market follows demand and not the other way around.

[Jon P. Inghram]

"It is a welcome rest from work..." Ha... HAHA.... AAHAHAHAHAHHA!

Working in a theater, we're open EVERY HOLIDAY. We close early on Christmas eve, but run a full set on actual Christmas day.

Anyway, I voted for Commercialization, and, BTW, it doesn't just target the kids, I see plenty of ads for adult "toys" too.

[Gurm]

A symbolic day that commemorates both His birth and Christian suffrage (it was moved from March to avoid Roman persecution).

From... March? I wasn't aware that Jesus was born anytime other than autumn... y'know, Roman tax time?

[Dr Mordrid]

Now: Dec 25th as per Constantines edict in 314 AD
Up to 314 AD: Jan. 6th (still is or the Eastern church)

The actual date is a suject of disagreement. Some say March 1-15 while others say Sept. 15-29.

In any case; other than the traditional celebration dates set by Constantine or the Orthodox church it's not a doctrinal matter. Think of them as Monday holidays

[az]

Isn't January 6th the advent of the three kings? Did they arrive the day he was born?

[KRSESQ]

The actual date is a subject of disagreement. Some say March 1-15 while others say Sept. 15-29.

I'd heard the March dates as the best bet for the birth of John the baptist and the September dates as the best guess for the birth of Jesus, since John was said to be six months older than Jesus.

Can I vote for all of the above (excluding #1 in favor of #2)?

Kevin

[Sasq]

you forgot the option that read, it was a pagan festival that was kidnapped by the christians

[Jessterw]

That would be this one, "It is a corruption of the solstice festival transmuted to celebrate Jesus' birth"

[Gurm]

Now: Dec 25th as per Constantines edict in 314 AD
Up to 314 AD: Jan. 6th (still is or the Eastern church)

The actual date is a suject of disagreement. Some say March 1-15 while others say Sept. 15-29.

In any case; other than the traditional celebration dates set by Constantine or the Orthodox church it's not a doctrinal matter. Think of them as Monday holidays

Well let's see - what do we know?

We know that the Roman Emperor Octavianus (also called Augustus) had called for taxes to be taken up. Not particularly unusual, but the requirement was for everyone to go to the city of their birth - where their birth records were, ostensibly - to pay the tax. So they headed to Bethlehem. Fine, fine.

Now "Roman Tax Time" was a bit misleading. After all, this wasn't a yearly thing. It was, in fact, the Roman Tribute Tax, done by census. Thus the need to travel to the city of one's birth. It was usually a one-shot deal for subjugated kingdoms, or perhaps a "once every X years" done in installments.

This particular tax landed Joseph and Mary (who by that point had been screwed so silly by her new husband that she could barely walk, contrary to the fervent beliefs of Christians everywhere) in Bethlehem at a time of year when there were shepherds in the fields at night. In Israel, there are no herds in the fields past September at night. May-September is really the only timeframe possible.

December? Ha! March is also RIGHT OUT. Just too cold at night for the flocks to be out.

Additionally, one has to consider that a census is a major event. I find it amusing that the writers of the scriptures describe that the Roman Emperor decreed that "all the world should be registered". In reality, it was simply their subjugated kingdom's turn. *shrug* Must have SEEMED like the whole world to them. At any rate, such a major event would not have been planned for any time other than after the harvest. Weather would have intervened in any months after October, and during the summer there was far too much work to be done.

Anyway, adding to all of this is the fact that it's PRETTY DEFINITE that John the Baptist was, in fact, born in March. His father's temple service is definitively established as ending in June and December (it ran twice a year). And he was most assuredly conceived immediately following his father's return from temple service. Other scriptures hint that JTB's mother was already 6 months pregnant during Hannukah. That puts his birth in March, which further supports Jesus' birth in September.

[Sasq]

gah should never read while hung over.
Brain use smaller words dammit, particulary on polls posted on the weekend when most of us are under the weather

[Gurm]

Isn't January 6th the advent of the three kings? Did they arrive the day he was born?

No, some time later actually. And the "advent" was just based on a randomly-chosen date.

Christmas was, of course, simply chosen to appease the masses who were upset that when the empire converted, they had to give up Saturnalia!

[Gurm]

gah should never read while hung over.
Brain use smaller words dammit, particulary on polls posted on the weekend when most of us are under the weather

You need to bolster your immune system if you intend to keep living in that super-bacteria riddled cesspool...