When will it end?

[Brian Ellis]

Platitudes certainly aren't going to work.

Dunno about that, what will work? Why do other heavily armed countries and unarmed countries have comparatively less per capita criminal violence and gunshot-related deaths, by a factor of 10? This is a question that must be answered before any solution can be found.

Switzerland is a country which also has a problem, at a smaller scale, but has more arms per capita that even the USA. I can think of only one case of a rampage over the past 30 or 40 years, when a guy broke into the Zug parliament in 2001 and used his military weapon to liquidate 14 deputies. Since then, there has been an on-going debate about the militia keeping weapons at home, especially as they are also used occasionally for suicides and family disputes. This came to a head a few months ago when there was a gratuitous shooting of a girl waiting for a bus by a soldier returning home with his arm. The authorities have decreed that soldiers should retain their arm but not have any munitions (it would be easier to distribute munition than arms in an emergency). This has been an intensely political debate that has no place on this forum, but has divided extreme right and the left and the "arms but no ammo" rule is a compromise, which will take a couple of years to implement. Nevertheless, concealed weapons are forbidden (there are a few exceptions) and there is very little gun-related crime (a minor hold-up of a post-office without a shot fired would be headline news). Perhaps, even more significant, senior politicians don't even have minders. I was lunching once at an ordinary restaurant in Berne when the President of the Confederation and the Minister of Finance walked in and just sat down at a table not 10 m away from me, like anyone else, and ordered the plat du jour with 3 dl of wine. No one turned round to look at them or try to talk to them. Outside of parliament, they are just ordinary people, minding their own business. This is a mindset of non-violence in possibly the most heavily armed nation in the world, proportionally speaking. Many people do not even bother to lock their front doors or cars, except in the city centres and kids and women do not need accompaniment, even at night (of course, there is odd sexual perversion crime, but even that is rare -- read what it says about missing children in the US on the right of the page: “…A child goes missing every 40 seconds in the U.S, over 2,100 per day - In excess of 800,000 children are reported missing each year - Another 500,000 go missing without ever being reported…” )

I can only assume that violence is begotten by violence. This is a vicious circle (with the emphasis on the vice) and I simply cannot see how it can be broken.

[Paddy]

My father would have died 18 years earlier than he did at the hands of a criminal, but my perforating the SOB with a very large hole put a stop to that.

A decade later I performed a citizens arrest of 3 hoods breaking into our neighbors house, which at the time was only occupied by their 16 year old daughter. An assist goes to my 12 gauge magnum. Racking that thing ends 99.9% of all confrontations, sight unseen.

Is it hard taking a life? You betcha, but the alternatives and the guilt of inaction would have been much much worse.

I'm well armed to this day, a SIG P-239 .40 S&W. I have a concealed carry license and use it. Margie has a Beretta 9000 9mm and is also licensed. Both of us have combat training. All 3 of our adult kids are likewise, and when the time comes I'm sure Erik will do the same.

Being a victim is not an option.

One has to wonder if someone in that classroom had been armed, and had the opportunity to use it, if most of those deaths and injuries could have been prevented. Unfortunately the only state that would have allowed for that is Utah, but it's something to consider.

There was a case a couple of years ago, in the South I believe, where an assistant principal had a gun in the trunk of his car so he could go to the range after work. A school shooting incident started whereupon he ran to his car, got the gun and returned to the building. He encountered the shooter mid-act and killed him, no doubt saving many lives.

Sounds like a plan. Platitudes certainly aren't going to work.

Simply "outlawing" guns will not stop violence; crazies, criminals and terrorists will find a way. Hell, a motivated person could take out a classroom (and then some) with some processed aspirin.

Hell, for that matter anyone with a basic metal shop and easy to acquire skills can make all the weapons they want, rendering any gun ban moot. Just a trip to a discount tool dealer and away you go.

Oh yeah, the retarded notion that if you can't be armed to the teeths, the criminals will kill you

[Dr Mordrid]

My father would have died 18 years earlier than he did at the hands of a criminal, but my perforating the SOB with a very large hole put a stop to that.

A decade later I performed a citizens arrest of 3 hoods breaking into our neighbors house, which at the time was only occupied by their 16 year old daughter. An assist goes to my 12 gauge magnum. Racking that thing ends 99.9% of all confrontations, sight unseen.

Is it hard taking a life? You betcha, but the alternatives and the guilt of inaction would have been much much worse.

I'm well armed to this day, a SIG P-239 .40 S&W. I have a concealed carry license and use it. Margie has a Beretta 9000 9mm and is also licensed. Both of us have combat training. All 3 of our adult kids are likewise, and when the time comes I'm sure Erik will do the same.

Being a victim is not an option.

One has to wonder if someone in that classroom had been armed, and had the opportunity to use it, if most of those deaths and injuries could have been prevented. Unfortunately the only state that would have allowed for that is Utah, but it's something to consider.

There was a case a couple of years ago, in the South I believe, where an assistant principal had a gun in the trunk of his car so he could go to the range after work. A school shooting incident started whereupon he ran to his car, got the gun and returned to the building. He encountered the shooter mid-act and killed him, no doubt saving many lives.

Sounds like a plan. Platitudes certainly aren't going to work.

Simply "outlawing" guns will not stop violence; crazies, criminals and terrorists will find a way. Hell, a motivated person could take out a classroom (and then some) with some processed aspirin.

Hell, for that matter anyone with a basic metal shop and easy to acquire skills can make all the weapons they want, rendering any gun ban moot. Just a trip to a discount tool dealer and away you go.

[Technoid]

Oh yeah, the retarded notion that if you can't be armed to the teeths, the criminals will kill you

[ALBPM]

Like where? What sort of place are you talking about?


PS Why put cowards in quotes? Plainly they are cowards, they think guns are an answer to the vicissitudes of life.

Schools and Shopping Malls where it is posted - No Firearms allowed....

[Dr Mordrid]

One thing remains constant with many of these cases: all too many, including this guy and the one at Virginia Tech, were psychiatric patients who were either on or recently quit taking antidepressants. The number cases where especially young people act out in this manner is IMO becoming very disturbing.

Bet we find out this is another case where everyone knew his behavior was deteriorating, including school officials, but no one took the responsibility to intervene. Early reports are that he was acting erratically and that the gun purchases were recent and legal.

Looks like the lessons of Virginia Tech vs. linking psych patient records into the gun purchase database have not been learned in Illinois.

[Kruzin]

When will it end?
When the human race becomes extinct.
People of all ages have been killing each other for all of history, by any and all means possible. We're violent animals, and nothing is going to change that.

[cjolley]

Have you noticed these incidents only occur in so called "Gun Free Zones" where you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon even if you have a permit.

These "Cowards" would not dare do this in a public place where people are allowed to carry a concealed weapon for self defense.

Like where? What sort of place are you talking about?


PS Why put cowards in quotes? Plainly they are cowards, they think guns are an answer to the vicissitudes of life.

[ALBPM]

Have you noticed these incidents only occur in so called "Gun Free Zones" where you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon even if you have a permit.

These "Cowards" would not dare do this in a public place where people are allowed to carry a concealed weapon for self defense.

[Paddy]

The only response can be that it will never end in the USA while they hold on to their "Right to Bear Arms". I'm sorry if that's political, but what else is there to say (apart from expressing sympathy for the innocent victimns and their families)?

[Evildead666]

Have you seen "Bowling for Columbine" ? There are other countries with about the same number of arms or more (e.g. Switserland), where these things happen less frequently (extrapolated to population numbers). I pretty sure it must be something else...

Sad nonetheless...

Jörg

I think they mention that there are more guns per person in Canada, but a LOT less violence...

I don't think there is just one reason for this, but many...

Its just such a shame that its happenning to such young kids...

[Tjalfe]

Sad.. I wonder when they will blame computer games for this one too

[ND66]

When will this end? I wish it never started.....

Take a look at this guy picture, just an average guy you pass by every day...




Local Story here




.

[VJ]

The only response can be that it will never end in the USA while they hold on to their "Right to Bear Arms". I'm sorry if that's political, but what else is there to say (apart from expressing sympathy for the innocent victimns and their families)?

Have you seen "Bowling for Columbine" ? There are other countries with about the same number of arms or more (e.g. Switserland), where these things happen less frequently (extrapolated to population numbers). I pretty sure it must be something else...

Sad nonetheless...

Jörg

[Jammrock]

The only response can be that it will never end in the USA while they hold on to their "Right to Bear Arms". I'm sorry if that's political, but what else is there to say (apart from expressing sympathy for the innocent victimns and their families)?

Taking away the right to bear arms might help in the future, but there are so many guns already in the states it wouldn't take much for a sufficiently dedicated psycho to get one, or three...or twenty.

Amendment II


A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

A lot of people feel that the wording only allows an armed militia, meaning trained defenders, but most cases conveniently chop off the first half when dealing with gun laws. I'm on the fence on the whole thing. I enjoy range shooting, and hunting is a big thing in many states, and I would not like to see those sports taken away, but guns being as freely available as they are definately needs to change, IMO.