Linux: Your recommendations

[rugger]

Sigh

I am a few years later than you wrt linux bobby.

I started experimenting with linux back in the 1.3.X kernel days. A long time ago, but not quite as long ago as you. I seriously got into linux at the end of 1995, when I sat down and learned the basics of Linux and TCP/IP over the course of 2 weeks, setting up a internet sharing box at my high school. Sad thing is, I could probably do the same thing in a day now

I agree about slackware, rock solid, fast, flexible and more. Setup is a breeze because you don't have to guess at how the system scripts and setup work (they don't play funny games with files and stuff just to make it cuter for first time users), because it is all cleanly laid out in a single layer. Under slackware, everything compiles and installs without drama, kernel upgrades arn't a pain, (simply download standard tarball) security upgrades can be installed without waiting for the damned maintainer to create a package. Slackware also leaves you system resources free to do the work you want to do with it. Slackware is just so UNIX-like, I can't stand any other distro.

Ah there, sorry about that rant But slackware really is the only reason I like linux.

[{PainCresT}DAn]

I've got one question.... I have a Hauppauge WinTV PCI video card and want to use it... What distro do I use, I currently have RedHat 7.2 installed and for some reason the Hardware manager detects the tv tuner but when I try to run xawtv it shows nothing on the screen except a bit of static at the top of the screen... I right clicked and setup menu comes up and I set it up buy putting NTSC, Canada cable and still nothing, I go up to about 100 MHz and still nothing.

I went to the Hauppauge websit and they gave info for redhat 6.1 and they mentioned something about kwintv and I found it on some server (remember it was a .org server so probably opensource site) and installed it I think... By the way I have to mention one thing if you haven't noticed yet I'm a newbie @ Linux, I'm more a hardware tweaker than OS software type guy... What I mean by I think is that its ready I guess to be compiled into the krenel I guess but I haven't done that in about 5 years and have not memory about it at all.

Basicaly I would like to know which distro would detect and intsall the proper modules and drivers into the kernel on install of the OS... Ok so I'm really rust at it ok... need a SLOW intro to it again, Unfortunaly all the jobs I've had never needed linux as a priory and unfortunatly M$ is getting there way. At least there is **Weaker Than Expected** earnings from Europ and Asia, and speaking of Asia starting to subsidies development of Linux just to avoid paying M$ licensing fees... LOL... I've finally put together a second system just to F around with and I really want to learn everything I can, btw I'm a Systems/Network/Webadmin, I really want to use Apache on Linux.

[rugger]

Ahh,

Changing distribution isn't going to help you much.

It is better to learn how things work in linux, then you can control the system, rather than the system controlling you.

You should look into the bttv module documentation. Try adding the option card=10 to the module parameters.

[{PainCresT}DAn]

Kewl thanks at least thats a start... One thing that makes me angry about using Linux is the fact that most Linux GODS out there seem to think that by keeping cryptic just because it is what they are comfertable to keep job security or as a pissing contest on how much more intelligent they are than everyone is the exact reason why Linux isn't really compeeting with Windows, thus not making these Linux GODS all that intelligent since they havn't been able to make GUI menus for everyhting. Windows donesn't need much documentation unless your an idiot, and yes I said unless your an idiot... only when it comes to updating windows does thing start to become obscure. Anyway like one of the previous posters he mentioned that he'd been in Linux for years but is getting tired of constantly having to recompile this and recompile that to get anything to work... I'm not a programer I shouldn't have to know how to program just to use an OS.

[rugger]

Originally posted by {PainCresT}DAn
Kewl thanks at least thats a start... One thing that makes me angry about using Linux is the fact that most Linux GODS out there seem to think that by keeping cryptic just because it is what they are comfertable to keep job security or as a pissing contest on how much more intelligent they are than everyone is the exact reason why Linux isn't really compeeting with Windows, thus not making these Linux GODS all that intelligent since they havn't been able to make GUI menus for everyhting. Windows donesn't need much documentation unless your an idiot, and yes I said unless your an idiot... only when it comes to updating windows does thing start to become obscure. Anyway like one of the previous posters he mentioned that he'd been in Linux for years but is getting tired of constantly having to recompile this and recompile that to get anything to work... I'm not a programer I shouldn't have to know how to program just to use an OS.

I think a big problem with most "linux GODs" is that they find it hard to relate to knowledge level of other people. They also despise that many of the newbies want to be hand held through everthing and won't read manuals. This leaves many of these experts frustrated and uninterested in helping newbies. Plus a lot of them arn't really great communicaters in the first place.

You also have to realize, you havn't paid anthing for linux and arn't really entitled to technical support. If you did pay for a distribution of linux, you should be communicating with the vendor who created the distribution for technical support.

[{PainCresT}DAn]

Fair enough.... Now onto the Where in hell do I start... Since all the info is available on the Internet and I have highspeed which i pay for and I don't want to buy several books which would total to the same ammount of money it would cost to get an MS OS. Basically what I'm saying is if the so called "non-great communicaters" are writing the manuals or the website I need to read to get the info required to do the things mentioned how do you expect these techs to get there info accross in the first place when they are not good at communicating or just happen to use technical terms that are only used in Unix/Linux an nowhere else... zombies, inodes, deamons...

[{PainCresT}DAn]

Sorry for being such an Arse but I learned ISO standard terminology and I wish everyone would use such standards for every little aspect of every tech related thing out there since technology is getting more and more complex. We need to reach a point that everyone agrees on terminology and using a standard directory setup (finaly saw some info reguarding LSB... Linux Standard Base, I think I could be wrong on the acronym) with standard commands... blah blah blah we've all heard it before. Anyway I'm not trying to bash anyone since I've been supporting Window$ for far too long and it totaly sux ass especially that damned registry crap... Why even have system restore bullcrap when the files rarely get corrupted its usualy the registry which f's it self up in the first place, I'm just trying to make a point from a support tech that has been supporting Window$ since Win95 hit the market in August of 95. The point is that Linux needs to get organized and about 50% of the totaly obscure information out there needs to be re-written by someone who actualy knows how to use a thesaurus and can actualy get the information accross to those who don't anything about Linux.

I'm really not that much of a newbie to it but I hate that I have to read that much more just to learn something that isn't intuitive in the first place. Just so you know I constantly keep up on Hardware info and that alone is a full time job and to add all the stuff I need to read just to catch up on linux is unacceptable since I spend about 6 hours a day read about hardware, I don't want to add an other 3 or 4 hours to that... I do have a life you know. Or should I say there is more to life than learning Linux... BTW I need to also keep up on MS Patches (and if anything this is a full time job)for work which pays my bills and rent thus taking even more time. My problem is time, I don't have any to spare unless people are going to pay for my psychologist fee for when I go insane.

[Marshmallowman]

to get the time frame right for slackeware

1.2 and 1.3 slackware were of the same vintage
1.2 was the stable "branch"
and 1.3 was the development branch(unstable)...i used 1.3 at the time because it had support for my adaptec 2940UW(still have it)

[bobby2]

Well, talking of the problem ... and not solving. The Linux Gods out there arent necessarily so, just DemiGods in their own specialisation.

Also note that Linux was well ahead of NT4 in many repects, nothing like as simplisitc as Win95/98/Me.

There are a lot of things to pick up on w.r.t Linux, and even the best books will never get it all. I was lucky as I learnt Unix long before PC/DOS, and developed both skills in tandem - meaning I could do a straight comparison of capability - little did I understand at the start.

Good books neednt be 'Linux' - they can be Unix based, and there are very many good ones. Slashdot has reviews, and http://www.rootprompt.org/ is a good source - from these you can find all.

Fire a request for a good book at comps.os.linux.XXX - and use google group search for info on wierd stuff about Linux.

Ive been using it for ages now, and I still need to delve. My current questions will be centering around SSL/security on shiny new Apache2.0 - I know the answers are there - its too new for a book - but I know that I can pull the info from those DemiGods ...

[{PainCresT}DAn]

I guess I have to spend about what 300 CND to get all the books for linux... Free Eh?

[rugger]

{PainCresT}DAn,

If you put this much effort into actually learning linux, rather than complaining about linux, then you might get somewhere

Nobody is paid to provide documentation at your level. If you want it, you will have to pay for it. Otherwise, you will need to make an effort to bridge the gap.

Sorry, but that is the way it is. No point complaining to us here.

[{PainCresT}DAn]

hey, I'm not really complaing just pointing out what has held a good system back (and maybe trying to get a good site to start with that acutaly uses proper terminology ). I'm a geek to and I hate having to constantly have to explain why windoz crashes to dumbasses who won't even know what I'm saying in the first place. Anyway if its free I do agree that support is not going to be there, just so you know I've been using borrowed software for about 10 years now and never needed any manuals to figure BeOS, QNX, or OS2 but with linux... I need to be a programer ... how much more money do I need to spend just to know that there is a complier problem with a certain GCC bla bla bla floating point bla bla.. do you see what I mean, Linux is not a user system but a development system. I need a personal programer just for my very own dealings with Linux, now how much does a programer cost in CND... aboot $25.00-$30.00/hour aint got that.

[{PainCresT}DAn]

Oh and I put a lot of effort keeping up with my job which actualy believe it or not pays me and not the other way around... being that they don't even want to hear about linux (really they don't want to know anything about it and won't give me any courses on it) I need to put my focus on what allows me to live and pay bills like my OSAP and car payments as well as things like rent... internet... cable... food...

[{PainCresT}DAn]

Sorry a boot the bitch fest but instead of counter arguing my comments send me some links to help me out, Thanks

PS: Rugger you do have a point, if the world would stop being ignorant morons about software and actualy pull there heads out of there asses maybe just maybe real development can be done to make a user system out of Linux... I just want a gui kernel recompiler, that's all and maybe get some type of info system that tells you when you download things and do the darn command that the site says to install it and let you know where and if you want to recompile now??? if there is such a system please let me know. Thanks

[rugger]

About windows,

When people ask why windows crashes, tell them the truth. That windows is a pile of smelly dog do and they just have to put up with it. No need to be technical about the truth. ( I am sure Grum is gonna flame me for that )

About linux,

There are lots of HOWTO's and information at the site http://www.linux.org

If you need to download a program for linux, you can ussually find it at http://www.freshmeat.net. Many programs are also built into RPM's, that you can install without compiling, using the graphical RPM manager.

About the command line. Unfortunately, you will have to get used to it. It IS hard to learn, but it is a very very powerful tool when used effectively.

As for the linux camp pulling their head out of their asses and producing user-friendly (or better termed newbie-friendly) software, it isn't going to happen, so I wouldn't hold your breath. The vast majority of the linux camp is not interested in overtaking the user desktop, including most linux programmers. We simply don't really care if linux takes over the world or not. The minority who do seem to make the most noise though, dragging in people who won't get any benifet from running linux. I view this as a major problem, because people believe it can just magicly replace the windows desktop. Then they find out linux is completely different system, not suited to their needs, they get upset, and a lot of bad press results.

About compiling the kernel, if you find it too hard, simply keep with the vendor supplied kernels. They are not as good IMO, but they work fine. Some tips to help though:

you can use: make menuconfig

to get a text full screen menu for configuring the kernel. I use this because make config is just too error prone

and you can also use: make xconfig

to get an X version, but it isn't as well maintained as the menuconfig version. It ussually works fine, but I won't make any garrentees.

Another useful command: make oldconfig

If you unpack the kernel sources, and copy your .config from either /boot/.config, or a pervious kernel you compiled to the new kernel directory, you can use this command to automaticly setup your kernel like the old one.

Other things you should learn about if you are interested in compiling your own kernels are LILO (the bootloader) and modutils( the module loading tools) These tools work with the kernel to make life happen for linux.

In the end though, you are not going to be happy with linux unless you can use and like the command line.