Okay Sony... A "DISC" CAMCORDER???

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.digitalproducer.com/aHTM/...digitalcam.htm

[Grigory]

Mpeg2 on 650 MB disk...

20 minutes per disk gives questionable quality for me, compared with original DV.

I had to limit myself by 12 minutes per CD to keep desired qualtiy.


The price is also questionable.

Grigory

[VIKINGMAN]

Man, I hate that company (Sony that is), once again they come out with something of "their own". Why the hell can't they go with what other companies are working together on!

We had VHS (and Video2000), they HAD to launch the Beta-system!

We had walkmen and Discmen, they HAD to launch the MiniDisc!

We had VHS-C, they HAD to launch the Video8!

We had S-VHS-C, they HAD to launch Hi8!

We had Mini-DV, they HAD to launch Digital8!

ALL systems have failed or are patched solutions, which gives the consumer a choice, but what a choice! This just to have "the Sony way"!!!

Now Sony is launching a "new" step backwards! Okay, the disc-recording is innovative, but with a resolution that is "only" S-VHS quality, shows that the system isn't really ready to be launched. It's the same story as with Philips's CDi.

No, give us progress and moreover give us standards, instead of trying to force diff. systems upon our heads, like Sony did with the Video8 system!!!

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ASUS P2B-S, PII-350 (o/c to 412MHz), 128MB RAM, Cheetah 9.1 GB, Matrox Mill. G200SG, SB 64AWE, Plextor 32x CD-Rom, Sony CDU-924S CD-R, Canon BJC-7000 InkJet and Canon CanoScan 300 Scanner.

[This message has been edited by VIKINGMAN (edited 03 November 1999).]

[Jerry Jones]

I can't imagine anybody paying that
price either. But who knows? Maybe
Sony will improve it to where the image
quality will be better and the disc
capacity greater. Someday it might be
worth a look.

[CarterTG]

Price wouldn't be much of an issue for gadget jockeys who like to live on the bleeding edge. I'm sure Sony will get some significant sales based on that alone. It seems like this camcorder is best suited for Web Authors who can benefit from capturing directly to a web-ready format.

My concern is that if Sony thinks video hobbyists will embrace a 20-minute format, they're mistaken. I only see this as an attempt to ensure their MD format stays afloat. IMO, MD is simply "too little, too late". Years and years after it was introduced, Sony's prices for MD technology remained outrageously high...($699 minidisc players, $799 minidisc PC drives) it wasn't until around the time that CDRs became affordable that we finally started seeing MD players dip below the $300 mark. 74-minute audio recording and 20-minute video capacities? In this day and age of massive storage tech, doesn't that seem like Coca-Cola trying to repackage their products in thimbles? Unless they switch to a narrower recording track and STILL retain some backwards compatibility, I don't see the MD format as having much room to grow. While Sony uses a memory buffer to serve as shock protection in their MD format, it's a stupid trend to introduce a camcorder that records on a rotating disc. In rough-&-tumble real-world conditions, using a memory buffer to "fix" a shock to the recording system is a band-aid solution. When next-gen camcorders start using solid-state storage (ie. multi-gigabyte CompactFlash), wake me up.

getting off soap box,


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Carter
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Abit BH6 v1.02 ATX motherboard
Celeron 433mhz Slot1
128mb PC100 SDRAM
[C:] IBM 10.1gig 7200rpm UDMA33
[D:] IBM 10.1gig 7200rpm UDMA33
[E:] FastTrak66 RAIDed 2x13.5 7200rpm UDMA66
[F:] 24x CD-ROM
[G:] SanDisk USB CompactFlash reader
Matrox Marvel G200 TV AGP
Canopus DVRaptor PCI
SBLive Value PCI
DLink Ethernet PCI
v.90 modem PCI
Win98, MSP 5.2
Canon L2
Canon XL1

[fluggo99]

Minidisc doesn't hold 650MB. Minidisc holds ~150 or ~180MB. Audio Minidiscs are compressed.

[Jerry Jones]

I agree with just about everything
said... but would point out Sony are
making a distinction between the
traditional MiniDisc and the type of
disc that plays in this new camcorder.

Sony refer to the camcorder disk as
"MD View" and they claim it is distinct
from MiniDisc (although it has to be
related because in the very same
news release it is revealed standard
audio MiniDiscs will also play in this
camcorder).

[paulw]

Hey Vikingman.

I would disagree with your analysis on Sony.We had VHS (and Video2000), they HAD to launch the Beta-system!

I seem to rember that Beta was out before VHS in the promarket

We had walkmen and Discmen, they HAD to launch the MiniDisc!

Walkman and Discman are Sony products.

We had VHS-C, they HAD to launch the Video8!

Video8 rules the low end camcorder market

We had S-VHS-C, they HAD to launch Hi8!

Not many SVHSC camcorders out there mostly Hi8,

We had Mini-DV, they HAD to launch Digital8!

Good format for someone with an aging Hi8 or V8 camcorder to to and get digital quality at a cheaper price!!

ALL systems have failed or are patched solutions, which gives the consumer a choice, but what a choice! This just to have "the Sony way"!!!

I would hardly say that the Sony formats have failed!!! with the exception of Beta and that's along story of bad management at Sony.


Now Sony is launching a "new" step backwards! Okay, the disc-recording is innovative, but with a resolution that is "only" S-VHS quality, shows that the system isn't really ready to be launched. It's the same story as with Philips's CDi.

I agree that this toy may be a failure but is Sony evolves the product as it usually does in say 2 years it may be quite good. Diskless camcorder???

No, give us progress and moreover give us standards, instead of trying to force diff. systems upon our heads, like Sony did with the Video8 system!!!

[Jerry Jones]

The Sony Discam could signal the
beginning of new personnel trends
in the TV news biz.

I worked as a reporter/anchor for 9
years at http://www.ktvb.com

We generally had to use two... sometimes
three people to get a "package" news story
on the air.

Along comes the Sony Discam.

Now the general manager asks: Why
do I need three people...

a) a photographer to shoot video
b) a reporter to write/voice story
c) an editor to edit story?

Now... I'll cut my personnel costs by
up to 66%! I'll hire one person: Anybody
who can shoot/write/narrate/edit.

a) Story shot on Discam
b) Story written and voiced directly to
camcorder
c) Story edited in camcorder using
that Discam touch screen & pen
d) Story transferred in MPEG-2 format
to computer hard drive via ethernet
(or preferably Firewire)
e) Story uploaded to internet via
http://www.click2send.com or some
similar site.

Station downloads and airs MPEG-2 story.

PRESTO! Personnel costs cut by 66%!!!

And why do I need that extra satellite
uplink?

[DrMordrid]

There is something MAX HEADROOMish about that idea ;-))

Anyhow I agree this is just another muddying of the waters by Sony. Anything to make the consumer think they have something hot & new to show off at the block party.

Myself I wish they'd come up with something REALLY original, like a cam with a mini-DVD writer in it.

Dr. Mordrid

[A_BIT]

I wouldn't get one, and I think the price is too high but typical for a new Sony "invention". I would disagree with some, and say that Sony's move is a step in the right direction.

Anyone here that doesn't like non-linear editing?

I have felt for a long time that the ultimate camcorder would be able to record onto random access media. Something I could pop into the PC and edit. Personally I hate tapes. I hate them for audio, video and computer storage. Whether it's a walkman or a mainframe computer, linear access sucks for anything other than cheap storage. I don't know what that ideal media is, but would like something in the 8GB range that is rewritable, and can be read both in the camcorder and the PC.

The limitations of Sony's new device may keep our excitement down, but the concept is brilliant. Eventually there will be a non-linear camcorder that uses media we accept at a price we think is right and we will wonder how we did without them.

I think the ability to edit on the device is also a stroke of genius and a portent of things to come. This type of thing could be used for proof of concept if nothing more.

-Anthony

[Grigory]

Hi,

I could only conclude that Sony is bad because it is doing something.

Much better Panasonic still says "Yes, it is VHS" for their VHS-C. This is what all of us need!

Speaking seriously, disk storage looks by no means much better than tapes. Any attempt to replace tapes is an innovation.

We had old good B/W television, but somebody bad introduced color! Do you remember WHAT colors were on first color TV's?

We had old good grammophones, but Sony and several others introduced CD audio. Bad idea.

Long before this, instead of horse-based message delivery, a wired telegraph was invented. Many people did not like it.
Then, instead of using Morse code, voice telephone was invented.

Think about that bad behaviour of inventors: they used SAME WIRES to transfer voice instead of character codes!
If they wanted to invent something really new, they should use some voice wires. But inventors were so bad, that started with telegraph wires!

What a step back was using electromagnetic waves in Radio! Don't you think that it was a bad idea? We had already used electromagnetic waves before as a light!

And more, in radio receivers, they used copper wires, that were intended for use only in wired communications!

It was very same bad invention as Sony did, deciding to use SAME Hi8 tape to store DV!

Don't you see that using existing tapes as DV storage looks as a natural evolution, but introduction of mini-DV was a step aimed mainly to take more money from "NEW standard"?

So, who made a "mistake" - Sony with moving back to natural evolution of standards, or mini-DV inventors, still keeping the prices of mini-DV tapes at too high level?

OK, all of us should live in caves and eat raw meat of bizones. Any invention is bad, because it very often causes drop in birth rate.
Electricity, TV, and Internet are the examples.

The first real attempt to record voice on magnetic media for long term storage resulted in 200 kG weight of 100 km iron wire.
You can only think how strong could be
all of us, if we had to carry 50-60 kg camcorders!

Grigory

[Patrick]

Next thing you know, someone here's going to be complaining about Sony's robotic dog, AIBO.





[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04 November 1999).]

[Grigory]

Here is a real innovation:

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Forum/1022/keyboard.jpg>

[This message has been edited by Grigory (edited 04 November 1999).]

[Mark F]

Leave it to MICROSOFT?
Now why not just have one button.
It could be the WINDOWS correction button.

Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD