SuperVCD creation?

[pederbc]

I've been trying desperately to create a superVCD from my HI-8 using my G400 Marvel and the bbMPEG, but I get som funny results. Either I get a lot of noise on the right side of the picture or it turns out "widescreen". Can anyone help me with either the settings in bbMPEG or what else to use? I'm capturing in 704x576 PAL and then it's supposed to be converted to 480x576.

[This_Idiot]

"480x576" ?

That doesn't sound right. 704*480 is the NTSC equivalent of the RR's 704*576 full screen PAL. Don't you need NTSC quarter screen for MPEG product ? Like 352*240

[pederbc]

I agree, it looks silly, but according to the SVCD specs the resolution should be 480x480 NTSC and 480x576 PAL. But it's not possible to capture at that size. And there is probably where I do something wrong with the bbMPEG. So, hopefully, not in vain, I figured maybe someone else have tried this. My hope is to get a better result than with VCD playing on my Phile 715...

[KRISW]

Hi Guys, Hi Chris.

I should make some time to hang around here a bit more again. Picking up the habbit so to speak.

Anyway, if you understand German, this link : http://www.fortunecity.de/spielberg/...an/405/FAQ.htm

(too lazy to include /url, sorry) provides you with INVALUABLE info on the creation of SVCD's.) Though heavy Yamakawa/Raite oriented (a cheap but very nice DVD-player by the way) it's general enough to be usable to anyone looking to produce SVCD.

PS : just saw your second posting, and the Phile you're talking about is that very same Raite/Yamakawa device, so you already know about it's posiblities. Do you have a 2.4 Rom ? (Macrovision disabling/codefree !!)


If you _don't_ understand German, I could try to translate it for a larger part. Most important thing : the author of this document _used_ to state that it was near impossible to use BBMpeg to create SVCD's, and that the only tool that did create a correct working SVCD was Pansonic's (free ?) encoder. I just glanced back at the doc and now I do _not_ find that remark anymore. Must be getting old. He still promotes the Panasonic encoder since it's capable of resolution conversion (producing 480x576 from the original 704x576 Mjpeg format....and yes Chris, that's a valid SVCD format).

Two more links (check them out yourself) are :
http://www.johny.sk/cdrinfo/articles/svcd/index.html http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/videocd/svcd_overview.htm

There's bound to be _some_ English info there.

Take Care,

Kris
---------------

[This message has been edited by KRISW (edited 29 March 2000).]

[This_Idiot]

I stand corrected (again)

Hi Kris, where you been Mon Frere ?

Contact me, you know the details. I'm online virtually all day now, thanks to the recent launch of SurfUnlimited here in the UK.

Peter, good luck with your search

[pederbc]

So what you're saying is that I should try using Panasonic and do a MPEG-1 with 480x576? I'll try it tonight! Thanks!

[BrianP]

I'm looking into creating a SVCD myself and ran into the same curious 480x480 issue. I contacted the creator of bbMPEG and got the scoop. You set the dimensions to 480x480 but do not set the conversion to Proportional... while this looks "correct" it will make it letterboxed. You actually need to set the conversion to Fixed. This will squoosh the picture, but apparently once it is actually played by a DVD player, it is stretched out to fill the TV screen and looks correct. Next, click Start Encoding and select the SVCD template.

From there, follow these online instructions: http://dvdpiracy.net/dv_get/9549/svcd/foolproof.htm

Hope this helps. Please update us on your progress because I really am interested in trying this out. It appears to be a good alternative to mini-DVD, which does not play on enough set-top DVD players. If a DVD player can read CD-Rs there's a good chance it can play a SVCD (notably the Pioneer 525 and Apex players). Also, I did some bitrate calculations, and on a 700MB CD using an audio bitrate of 128, you can get 45 minutes of SVCD at a really impressive bitrate.

[This message has been edited by BrianP (edited 29 March 2000).]

[KRISW]

Yes indeed Brian.

Acutally, one of the main reasons for doing a SVCD for one of the author's I mentioned above was producing Star Trek episodes on normal CD with "near DVD quality", so there's your 45 minutes !

I of course only can take his word for it when he told us it was indeed "near DVD", but the rest of the guy's claims were pretty legit so try it out for yourself

Personally, I did some tests with Picvideo a while back and though it's not really the same thing as SVCD (being 640x400 with Picvideo) the results were very nice indeed. Reason for this experiment was the conversion of a dodgy NTSC tape to PAL where the MJPEG codec refused the original footage ("video source unstable"). I then used a RAW capture, not using the RRG Mjpeg hardware, encoding online using Picvideo into an a-typical 640x480 mpeg1 stream. Worked like a charm. Image quality was easly as good as you can expect from any VHS-based tape.

By the way, the German chap also mentioned the introduction of "Super CDR"'s by Traxdata, doing "99 minutes" instead of "74" and they are supposed to be writable and readable on any normal CD/CDRW. Looks nice as a "poor man's DVD" for the time being.

Chris : yeah I know. *guilty look*
But while you're able to have a good connection, Belgacom has been so kind to botch up our lines so bad that I can't get any connection above 14.400 anymore. As a consequence, it's nearly impossible to even download my mails without suffering from a nervous breakdown. (try downloading a DV500 driver upgrade of 90megs on lines like these ! ) I'll contact you as soon as I can. Cheers !

Take Care,

Kris
---------------

[IvanP]

Hi,

1. You can capture with marvel @ 704x576. Then change avi header (UWE's utilily) to other MJPEG codec (Morgan, picvideo) and use VirtualDub to deinterlace(smart)+resize(bicubic)=perfect results!!
2.For SVCD you can use bbMPEG or LSX (can produce CBR and VBR, also has released some unofficial SVCD profiles). Both of them does proper encoding but multiplexing is not SVCD compliant.
You need separate video/audio stream files and then mux it in SVCD authoring sw (Philis or Enreach I-Author).
3. If you encode to MPEG-1 you will create XVCD. SVCD uses MPEG-2.
4. Don't accept "near" DVD quality. It's limited by 2.2Mb datarate and it's not enouhgt for MPEG-2 algorithm. MPEG-1 @ this datarate looks better.

Ivan

[JoakimC]

I also want to do SVCD. But i can't find a good MPEG-2 encoder for SVCD. Ligos LSX 3.0 doesn't support interlaced video. bbMPEG can't do VBR. If you need to resize video VirtualDub can resize without blending the fields. You must choose one the precise resize types the others blend the fields. Ligos LSX is useless for SVCD and DVD encodings. Both DVD and SVCD are interlaced video. LSX can only output progressive sequence. bbMPEG can output all different types of interlaced sequence.

[michigan___bv]

Ha! I just came to this forum to ask about this exact topic! Yes, I just made my first SVCD yesterday using A-Author. I was very disappointed that the Matrox MJPEG codec can't capture to 480X480. I used BBMPEG with the SVCD profile, and I also wondered if I should maintain the aspect ratio, or use the "squeeshed" image. I did leave one of my nine files with the aspect ratio looking letterboxed, and it did look too wide when I played it on my APEX. The other "squeeshed" clips looked great on the Apex!

There is a problem creating the CIF image files over 650mb, I-Author errors out, but I've heard of a crack for that, and I'm looking for it now.

Ivanp, I'll try taking your advice on creating the MPEG files using Morgan MJPEG and Virtual Dub, because I've heard that using the unofficial SVCD profiles in LSX yields better results than BBMPEG, but LSX doesn't change the resolution.

The Apex will play SuperVCDs/XVCDs made by I-Author just fine, even if you use MPEG-1 encoded files instead of MPEG-2. Ivanp, yes, technically, 480X480 MPEG-1 isn't SuperVCD, it's XVCD. Are you saying that MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoded at the same bitrate will produce a video that looks and plays better with MPEG-1? I've seen on the APEX message board that encoding SVCDs at too high a datarate will cause choppy playback on the APEX.

Ivanp, maybe you can clear something up. Interlaced versus de-interlaced video. I've heard conflicting views on which is better for SVCD. I don't believe LSX 3 supports interlacing. I'm not sure about BBMPEG.

[stlloyd]

I was glad to see this discussion on SVCD going on. I would like to know where to fing the best online resource describing SVCD. Capture requirements, etc. By the way what tool do you all use to create the SVCD (equivalent of Adpatec CD creator for VCD)

------------------
-StLlloyd

[Tinnes]

Hi could someone please tell me what setting they use for 'bbmpeg'. I have done a couple of tests and I keep getting big files not near 45mins on 1 CD (650 MB). I tried reducing the bit rate and was not impressed by the loss in quality. Is there a magic tick box somewhere or a value I need to change. I fiddled around for a while and did several tests but I didn't know what I was doing. Also I capture audio in 22,16,mono becuase if I try to increase it then at full res capture my hard disk chokes. So what bitrate should I use for audio, I won't need 128 will I becuase I'm not going for CD quality? I know at these audio settings I won't be able to make a 'TRUE' SVCD but I only want to play it on my puter any way.

Any help would be great.

Tinnes =)

[pederbc]

An update! I still can't figure out the bbMPEG, so I decided to give the Panasonic a go trying to make what I believe is XVCD. My goal is to make a CDR that will play on a standalone (AVPhile) with the best picture possible. So the last couple of nights I have tried with different bitrates and different filters. Hopefully tonight (or tomorrow) I will burn these shots and try them on the player. I'll get back with the results. It seems that the filtering is quite important for making a good MPEG. It seems that the "noise" from the videotape screws up the MPEG algoritm. Anyway, "I'll be back!".

[JoakimC]

I have been trying get VHS quality with MPEG-2. I output 352x576 PAL. I can't get below 4Mbit/s with bbMPEG. I get the best results with ExpertDVD. With ExpertDVD i can get close to 3Mbit/s. My source is captures from broadcast TV so i have alot of noise i my captures, maybe that's why a can't use lower bitrates. To me it seems impossible to get near DVD quality at bitrates below 2.5 Mbit/s. Or maybe we need Heuris MPEG power pro. And about filtering. You can get lower bitrates with filtering. It's hard to find a program that can filter without blending the fields. Most programs filter AVIs like they all were progressive frame. Does anyone know a program that can split a frame into 2 fields, filter them and merge them back to a frame.