SuperVCD creation?

[Walrus]

JoakimC:
Download and install virtualdub, and then download and install 2 filters I wrote for it. One is a modified 2d blend that blends pixels that are near each other (to preserve sharp detail). It has an interlaced mode where it treats the frame as 2 seperate fields. The other filter is a temporal filter that works regardless of interlacing or not. Both improve mpeg encoding quite a bit.
My download site is at http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download
There are links on there to virtualdub as well.

[JoakimC]

Thanks Walrus. I have been looking for filters like that a long time. Many people don't understand the problem with processing interlaced video and that seems to include Adobe and Ulead. You have understood the problem. It's easy to find programs that can deinterlace, but it's hard to find a program that can process video and preserve the interlacing.

[Walrus]

JoakimC: Thank you for your kind words. Do keep in mind that I am not alone in Virtualdub filter authors in realizing the problem. I know Donald Graft is working on extending his Unsharp Mask filter to have an interlaced processing mode also.
BTW: I only assume that the interlaced mode works, as I don't have many interlaced example files I am working with, so if you notice any problems, PLEASE let me know.

[Tinnes]

Is it possible to use those filters with Adobe Premiere 5.x? I only ask because I use the Panasonic Plug-in for Premiere and it would save a lot of time and disk space if I could do the whole process in one go.

[Walrus]

Tinnes: I'm afraid not, at least not yet...
Though the new version of Virtualdub should fully support a process known as "frame-servering" which allows you to create a dummy .avi file which in reality is a link to a file you are working on in virtualdub. With this you can simple open the dummy .avi file in LSX or Panasonic or bbMPEG or any other standalone encoders and it will encode the results of Virtualdub and the filters.
In *THEORY* you may also be able to frame-server to Adobe Premiere... but even if it works, it's adding a TON of overhead onto an already slow process.
Among the reasons there's no premiere version is A) I don't have premiere and B) I still haven't gotten the filters to where I want them for one platform.
I'm not sure when Virtualdub 1.3b should be out (rather soon I'd assume since it's in beta), but you may want to look into it as a way around Premiere.

[wkulecz]

It seems the Enreach SVCD I-Author software costs ~$1000 according to their web site!

Kinda throws cold water on the whole deal!

--wally.

[Walrus]

Tinnes: I just remembered that Panasonic MPEG doesn't handle fields anyways. MPEG-1 has no feature to allow the fields to be encoded seperatly. (which is essentially the only functional difference between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2) The only MPEG-2 encoder that supports fields that works as a Premiere plug-in is bbMPEG as far as I know. (fortunatly it's also a stand-alone as well)
wkulecz: Still, it looks as through SVCD is going to have a pretty active niche.. Which means that other companies will get into the authoring business, and prices will plummet on that end. (I wouldn't be suprised to see Adaptec put out a SVCD add-on to Easy CD Creator Deluxe) I have nothing that will play SVCD yet (well except for my computer's DVD decoder), but I'm encoding stuff I want in max quality into it as well as a generic DVD-like stream and VCD to ensure compatibility no matter what.

[DrMordrid]

Lots of the newer DVD players are now SVCD compatable, but often this is undocumented in their packaging and spec sheets. Many are combo DVD/CD/VCD/SVCD players coming out of China where the SVCD/Chaoji standard was created.

Some examples;

APEX AD600A (Cirtuit City in the US has these, but it sold out locally in just 4 days @ $179 USD)

Pioneer 525 (also at Cirtuit City for about $249 USD)

Sampo DVD 520 & 560

MCF Enterprises DVD711 & DVD713; AKA Hoyo, Tokai, Monica, AV Phile, Yamakawa & KISS of (usually) the same model numbers.

Now all we need now is for Adaptec & Nero to add SVCD support and we're in business ;-)

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 02 April 2000).]

[pederbc]

Another update!
I've been busy all weekend trying all sorts of things to do a SVCD. I've tried the bbMPEG (for MPEG2) but I'm not satisfied with the picture quality. So, from the tips you all gave me I went ahead and tried the Virualdub using the deinterlace filter and the resize filter. Then I run it through the Panasonic using a video bitrate of 2872 and audio bitrate of 128, creating a total stream of 3000. This produces a very goodlooking picture, hard to differentiate from the original HI-8. Excellent! The only catch is that it's not really SVCD compliant, BUT, it does play on the AVPhile!

Walrus: I didn't notice your filters until now, so I will give them a try tonight, Thanks!

Another thing: I have tried doing so-called miniDVD and although the result is excellent it's only playable on the computer. And, if you're only gonna play it on the computer, it doesn't really matter what format it is. My goal is to have something that is playable on a standalone, and what I have produced so far works, and works great (although not SVCD compliant). I'll be back with more results...
By the way, is it possible to put these findings in a special place on your server to make it more accessible to people? Once the Topic is "off the list" people will post new topics asking the same things all over again. I guess that happens all the time.

[Walrus]

pederbc:
Why does the output of bbMPEG not satisfy you? Aside from performance issues, the output quality (at least for me) is extraordinary, and it's the only major encoder (that I know of) that produces interlaced MPEG-2. The only real drawback of it (as far as I'm concerned) is it's lack of variable bit rate support. What settings have you been using with bbMPEG that's been producing the poor quality video?
As for previous results, one may be wise to just hit the search button to see if a topic has been posted before. That said, some of this probably should be added to the idiot's guide.

[This_Idiot]

Hi Guys,

Yes, I agree that this stuff should be put up in an idiots guide for future reference. Can you liase between yourselves and come up with a simple list of instructions and variations that others will find easy to use ?

Chris

[Walrus]

This_Idiot: Actually, I just realized that we thus far have not come to a consensus as to the correct way to create a SVCD. (at least for the encoding portion) Though, I'm hoping to pick up one of the cheap DVD/VCD/SVCD/MP3 players tommorow, and I'm working on a huge project that I plan to make a DVD/SVCD and VCD copies of. Right now I'm using bbMPEG for encoding. Hopefully I'll be able to evaluate bbMPEG's picture quality for SVCD soon. (I guess I can afford to make a duplicate LSX encoded stream as well, though the lack of interlaced video support makes me a bit wary)

[JoakimC]

Is it possible buy a proffesionally made SVCD like it is with DVD. I want to buy one so i can see how it is encoded. I check all DVDs i get my hands on. My guess is that a SVCD is encoded as interlaced sequence of interlaced frames, most DVDs are encoded that way. Possibly 3:2 pulldown on NTSC discs.

pederbc,
I can't understand why you weren't satisfied with the picture quality of bbMPEG. It is better than DVMPEG and MegaPEG. If you give it enough bits the quality is close to MJPEG. The only encoder I know that is better is ExpertDVD, but there is something wrong with the outputted files.

[Walrus]

JoakimC:
I have not heard of a single commercial SVCD as of yet, though the format is not that complex. It's just an MPEG-2 stream with a resolution of 480x480 or 480x576 and potentially multiple audio streams. The stream can be either interlaced or progressive. (just as DVD can be)

[IvanP]

Hi,

For those who are looking for more info:
http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/videocd/svcd_overview.htm

Super Video-CD Test discs you can order at:
http://www.licensing.philips.com , follow the New System link.

I'll make (this or next week) LSX VBR (interlaced and progresive too) and bbMEPG test SVCDs and I'll test it on Pioneer DV525 that should be 99% able to play it.I'll publish the results here.

Ivan