OT: terrorism

[dave m]

This is a sad day for humanity.

Within a week we will have a new baby (I hope...).

I am very depressed to think it might be coming out to a world at war.

As I said in the Soapbox, my heart goes out to all who have had their lives destroyed today.

Dave

[J1NG]

"Why not just move in and take control?"

One reason is because of the idea of freedom and democracy (and hence Human Rights). If we take over, (US or anyone else) we are subjegating them. or if we wipe them out, it's considered an atrocity, which does not conform to the Human rights thing and other countries with the Human Rights thing and other what nots. The US effectively stuck in the middle in concerns about wiping out people and country's, you can only go one way. Unfortunately going the other changes things... for both the people of the US and others...

J1NG

[KRSESQ]

I think it was Admiral Yamamoto who, shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor, told his colleagues "I fear we have awakened a slumbering giant."

If this doesn't awaken the giant, nothing will.

Kevin

[Technoid]

Originally posted by KRSESQ
On a related note (and I apologise if this sounds facetious), NYC will almost certainly have a new park as a result of this.

Kevin

I do think that they should rebuild the towers.

As said before its an atack against a symbol, and the best thing fore morale would be to rebuild.

[Elie]

Originally posted by J1NG
"Why not just move in and take control?"

One reason is because of the idea of freedom and democracy (and hence Human Rights). If we take over, (US or anyone else) we are subjegating them. or if we wipe them out, it's considered an atrocity, which does not conform to the Human rights thing and other countries with the Human Rights thing and other what nots. The US effectively stuck in the middle in concerns about wiping out people and country's, you can only go one way. Unfortunately going the other changes things... for both the people of the US and others...

J1NG

I think that we should confirm to the human rights act where people that value it are conserned. These animal don't care, they have no morals no ethics and certainly no values, therefore should be deleted/wiped out from the face of this earth.

My 2 Canadian cents.

Elie

[IM_Riktar]

Now that I have gone through the longest hours of my life, and know that my Mom is ok I have the time to bear focus on the past events.

It is not enough to find the parties directly responsible for this act. It is not enough to find the surviving members of this group of zealots. It IS time to accurately determine the “outside” groups or countries who either support, or shrug their shoulders in response to these acts of horror and segregate them from the rest of decent society. Or at the extreme end eliminate them.

I have to believe the majority of the world would still be ok since we outnumber the “bad guys”.

And for those idiots who possess the intelligence to read this, and the stupidity to think that “Gee they just couldn’t get their message out” ,,,,,, GET A FREAKING CLUE!! The only message that these people send is that they are self-centered, selfish, and the very core of their being is consumed with all things evil, or bad.

There is NO WAY in this modern age of instant messaging to anywhere that anybodies message cant be heard.

This might not be the most “satisfying” way to deal with this to some, but from where I sit, after the last few hours, I just want to see that this never happens again. Might not be possible to eliminate it. But that doesn’t mean we can’t through every effort at out disposal to try. And too bad for whoever gets in our way. Maybe next time someone will think twice about harboring a known terrorist(s).

And lastly thanks to J1NG and everyone else who sent support my way.

[J1NG]

[I think that we should confirm to the human rights act where people that value it are conserned. These animal don't care, they have no morals no ethics and certainly no values, therefore should be deleted/wiped out from the face of this earth. ]

I'm afraid that is something that is more a personal view than an actual view.

The Human Rights thing applies to EVERYONE. Depsite their beliefs, they race and the other 50 or so rights... which includes the right to life, so we can't take that away from them unless they have caused something that requires us to remove those rights from them. Which in the case of the people firing guns, means they have those rights helping them...

There should be SENSIBLE RIGHTS (heck, Monkey RIGHTS?), which deal with these matters... But right now, only the Human Rights thing is in function... and right we subscibe to that ruling... until otherise stated...

And IM_Riktar, we are thankful that your mother is OK. Our prayers continue to go with the people cuaght in the incident.

J1NG

[MadScot]

Rational response

I think the most important thing to remember here is that people commit these terrible acts. Regions do not commit acts. Races do not commit acts. Religions do not commit acts. When ealier today the Pakistani countryside was mentioned as a possible location of Bin Ladden, a local Pakistani merchant was threatened with assult just for his national origon. It is easy to blame.

A response is necessary. It does not need to be today or this week. But we need to destroy the people that committed this act. Further, we need to recognize that the traits that we are blaming for suicide bombings are present in ALL of our socities. Look at the recent killings in Scaramento, or in the violence in Ireland. Granted they are not all suicides, but the basis is there. Take the nerve gass attack in the Tokyo subway. The possibilities are everywhere.

The conclusion: Any response must be rational and well directed. High collateral damage is NOT acceptable. It breeds more violence. Take the Oklahoma City bombing as retaliation for the Waco standoff as an example.

[Dr Mordrid]

The problem with that approach is that it creates a centralized authority, worldwide, that can label anyone a terrorist and target them.

This may sound tempting, but given how the nations most guilty of human rights violations took over the UN Human Rights Commission do you think that's such a good idea?

Such a group being able to do the same thing with a security apparatus could very well result in a worldwide police state.

Dr. M

[Sciascia]

I agree that a worldwide police state is not only undesirable, but it is impractical. the scary part is that the US has bugs and taps and informants and all kinds of stuff to intercept this kind of information before it happens. I honestly believe that there was probably a group of 20 or less hand chosen and talked to privately to pull this off. How do you defend against that with counter intelligence? Unless you have someone in there or someone talks, you'll never know until its too late. Scary.

I heard that tomorrow was te day they were going to judge the original ltrade center bomber and it was going to be done right in front of the World Trade Center. First thing that I asked when it happened was what was the date and what was it significant for. Now I know.

[iparout]

Well, since everyone seems to be posting on this matter, I 'm gonna give it a go as well...

First of all, my condolences to all the families that lost some of their people. The whole world is discouraging such acts of violence and of course someone has to pay for such a DISASTER..

***BUT*** (there's a big BUT here) -I know I'm gonna get flamed like hell-

Let's just sit back and think about what the US did a couple years ago at Kosovo...They had been bombing cities for days and of course the consequences of the Uranium pollution are yet to be seen. Thousands and thousands of *innocent* people died (including many children) and of course we all remember President Clinton saying "sorry, it was a mistake"... Just like that.

Same thing goes on now... Only the roles have changed..Many (thousands?) of innocent American people died.

Of course back at Kossovo, the US Government said they were delivering "JUSTICE"...Now it's "TERRORISM".

BUT, who was actually the judge whether justice should be delivered back at Kossovo or not and -the most important- what kind of justice should that be ? NO HUMAN is in the position to decide that.. NOONE.

I AGREE THAT this attack was an act of pure and massive terrorism but let's just think that same thing happened a few years ago, which of course was soon forgotten because it was the US calling the attacks back then...

So everyone thinking "COME ON, LET'S NUKE THOSE BASTARDS" should consider that sometimes the line between Justice and Fanaticism is extremely thin, especially in such difficult situations.

TERRORISM SHOULDN'T BE FOUGHT WITH COUNTER-TERRORISM.

I don't wanna become irritating and maybe if I had any of my relatives killed in that disaster, I would be thinking like many people in this forum do ; FANATICALLY !! However, as a third person, I think I have the right to share my opinion with you...

Again, my condolences to the families of the victims...May their souls rest in peace.

John.

P.S. : I can see a HUGE flame coming after this...

[IM_Riktar]

No flaming here just a consideration:

Did we sneak up on anyone in Kosovo? Were there any scenes that showed our citizenship cheering?

I don't recall seeing that.

MAJOR difference from a reality standpoint.

And in terms of counter-strikes, let me say that my view is one of segregation. Granted I am proposing some extreme measures but consider this:

If you had an abusive neighbor that threatened the safety and well being of your family, how many cheeks would you turn before you resorted to another tact?

[Ghydda]

I fart in your general direction!!! All you need now is a match and there's your flaming.
However, I have no idea what's going on in the big wide world because I still have not got working Marvel G200 to watch CNN on.

I don't like terrorism, it's the lowest form of communication possible an the most cowardly action imaginable.
However, have they only hit the home office on 1055 St-Regis in Canada, it would have been an entirely differnet matter...


Ghydda is upset

[Elie]

It looks like someone is striking at Kabul Afghanistan already.

Check out CNN now!

Elie

[dave m]

Ghydda, I hope you didn't just say what it seemed like you were saying, you'd better pray you have a problem with the english language.
Because otherwise what you just said was 1) insensitive 2) innapropriate 3) going to get you banned off this forum.
Sorry...