R.I.P. BetaMAX....

[Dr Mordrid]

Sony *finally* retires the Betamax format....

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-955512.html?tag=fd_top

Dr. Mordrid

[Debbie]

It was very good while it lasted !!!

[Greebe]

sniff, I feel glum all of the sudden. Beta was so much better than VHS. The marketeers of VHS should all be takin out and shot for misleading the public on such BS hype that turned the market in the wrong direction

[KRSESQ]

Sony is as much to blame itself. They refused to license the manufacturing of Betamax VCRs and tapes until it was too late. Matsushita licensed the manufacture of VHS early on, flooding the market with inexpensive (compared to Beta) VCRs. It also helped that VHS tapes were cheaper with more capacity.

Beta isn't going bye-bye altogether. It will still be around for a while as a professional format.

Kevin

[Greebe]

Partly true, but the fact that VHS proponents claimed longer recording time of the format as the biggest advantage even when such tapes were never available (at the time) and most know that the thinness of the T160 tapes base made them pure garbage.

VHS and Beta format was developed by Sony. Sony decided on the better of the two and sold VHS off to JVC not Matsushita. Take the marketing garbage out of the loop and the world would have been better off.

I can name quite a few other companies (JVC and Sanyo come to mind) that produced beta machines at the same time (circa '82-'83) when VCR's truely started to be affordable and available in mass quantities.

[PETERLEE]

In Britain the format "war" was decided by the video rental companies that standardised on VHS...even though the picture quality was inferior to Betamax in My opinion...
Having had a Philips V2000, I also think the quality of that was as good as vhs despite using only half the tape width. Having said that I was watching a film video`d on a JVC , the original press record& play together 1 event timer, recorded in 1979, & still watchable although a bit "soft".

Best Wishes ..........

Peter.

[Sciascia]

Don't know about Sony developing Betamax, but I do know that Ampex developed BetaCam and Betacam SP; same shape cassette, different format. Then Sony came in with some shadey contractual agreements and gave Ampex the shaft.

[Greebe]

That's because Ampex was using Sony technology to do what they wanted without giving credit do to who the greater part of their format was based upon. It wasn't shady at all, except on Ampex's part.

Don't get me wrong here Ampex makes some really great stuff, but geez they didn't invest millions to develope the format, the name or have to weather through the very beginnings to see it become what it did before investing moneys of their own.

At least Sony didn't buy them up or legally beat them to a pulp like M$ does to so many in it's history.

[Brian Ellis]

And my 8-track cassettes?

[Sciascia]

Originally posted by Greebe
That's because Ampex was using Sony technology to do what they wanted without giving credit do to who the greater part of their format was based upon. It wasn't shady at all, except on Ampex's part.

Don't get me wrong here Ampex makes some really great stuff, but geez they didn't invest millions to develope the format, the name or have to weather through the very beginnings to see it become what it did before investing moneys of their own.

At least Sony didn't buy them up or legally beat them to a pulp like M$ does to so many in it's history.

Well it may have been completely legal, but I went through a course several years ago by Tentel (alignment tools for Betacam SP VTR's) and it was taught by one of the engineers who designed the Betacam. The guy made $400 per day while teaching!! He was getting ready to retire and asked me about my plans and if I was interested in trying to replace him. Of course I was until about the 6th day of the course I realized that there was no way that I could do it. We spent 2 weeks tracing circuits and he was naming the people that designed comb filters and feedback loops (all of them from Ampex). It was daunting and I knew that I would be fired in about a week. Nobody that I know has that kind of knowledge anymore, the old guys who were there in the beginning are amazing. Nowadays it is just board swapping, those guys still did component level repairs and had to have the knowledge. Today it just isn't cost effective or possible due to size. We've got an engineer in our shop right now that was there in the tube days. Give him anything and he will make it work in a few hours. He makes my head hurt. Of course give him a computer and he'll throw it against a wall. He is getting ready to retire and doesn't see the need to get along with computers. Being a (relatively) young guy myself, I don't have a choice.

Sorry about the ramble, point was that I have gotten to know this guy over the years and I trust him. If he says that Ampex forged the way on Betacam SP, which is a completely different format than Betamax, then I believe him. He doesn't work for Ampex anymore and after working on both Ampex CVR-75 and Sony BVW-75 machines for 11 years I know there is absolutely no difference. Parts are 100% interchangeable, though Ampex parts are much better priced. It was a collaborative effort, but Sony got the better end of the deal in the end. To hear it from him it was not under the most honorable methods.

By the way the service manuals are almost identical, though the actual specs in the Sony manual are usually wrong, Ampex's are a little better. One of the underhanded things that Sony did was change the thickness of the substrate on the tapes they produced. This led to Ampex tapes which were based on the original spec seem inferior. Sony then changed the alignment spec to coincide with their tapes. If you use the Ampex alignment spec both tapes are fine. A little underhanded in my opinion. The record head currents are also different, favoring Ampex as well.

I prefer Sony myself, just because they are bigger and are more accesible, but they got there by muscling their way into the market. It really is a shame that they screwed themselves with Betamax, it was a superior format. Greed bit them on that one.

[Greebe]

Sciascia, I too am one of them that will give you a headache (component level repair on just about everything under the sun

The basis of all their designs were essentially based on an improved form of Betamax. Simply using the same tapes put them in troubled water with Sony, let alone anything that even remotely resembled their designs. This is how big business works. Shoot one company I worked for (albiet short lived) wanted us EE's to design, ermmmmmm redesign competitors products. One of my collegues litterly was forced to part for part copy a competitors product or be fired. This company was caught red handed and sued silly. Needless to say neither of us work for that POS anymore (we quit).

I'm not saying that Ampex did copy Sony's designs per se. It's just how the game is played so often anymore. Sony just has the muscle to shove it legally down their throat... and we all know how technically competent the legal system is Reality bites

[Sciascia]

I don't know why they even bother with the actual act of the lawsuit. They should just see who's bank account is bigger and award them the case. Should be called something like financial litigation stamina or something. Whoever can pony up the most for the lawyers and wait it out wins.

[Elie]

Thanks Doc, I was actually suprised it lasted this long!!

Not to knock the technology down or anything, I mean BetaSP is still highly regarded in the video production industry.

Cheers,
Elie

[Peter Janak]

Ah, but it lives on in the Professional Betacam(SP) format. Better tape, same shell. I take home Betacam i-pass all the time a record TV with my betamax all the time. Obviously not worth it unless you can get your hands on previously used Betacam. And the re-use life of Betacam far exceeds Betamax
Pete Janak

[Peter Janak]

Well not exactly the same shell. But it fits exactly as the Betamax