Digital 8 vs. Digital

[Railie]

Hello,
VIKINGMAN: Thanks. But I know that Panasonic NV-DS 8 is miniDV. I can know, if This cheep DVcam has comparable quality. I mean comparable not compatible. This DVcam cost the some money, what cost Sony TRV8000. This is my wage for 2 month:-(
Which one is better for me?

[VIKINGMAN]

Hello Railie.

I'd deffinately go for the Panasonic! In picture quality it can certainly match up with the Sony. And even so importent, but not often talked about here is the mechanical quality of the drive! The Panasonic has a much higher reliability in the mechanical drive. So in the long run, a Panasonic will keep giving you great quality recordings!

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ASUS P2B-S, PIII-550 (o/c to 565MHz), 384MB RAM, Cheetah 9.1 GB, Matrox Mill. G200SG, SB 64AWE, Plextor 32x CD-Rom, PlexWriter PX-R820T CD-R, Canon BJC-7000 InkJet, OkiPage 4W Laser and Canon CanoScan 300 Scanner.

[This message has been edited by VIKINGMAN (edited 05 September 2000).]

[Eric B]

1 CCD vs 3 CCD: There is a difference but if you get a high end 1 CCD the difference isn't particularly significant unless you're doing broadcast work. Of course it never hurts to have a 3 CCD camera.

I use an Canon Optura Pi, a miniDV with 1 CCD and an RGB filter. The output is excellent and under some conditions is virtually identical to a 3CCD camera.

As for the Optura - it still is a very good, solid camera but the Elura is now encountering some very friendly price cuts and I would suggest that one for anyone in the sub-$2000CDN market.

Capture cards: I'm using a DVRaptor with Premiere. Works like a charm - no problems with the install and very easy to capture and edit with.

The only complaint I had was that the drivers came on floppy disks and I haven't had a floppy drive in my computer in nearly 2 years.

Of course I wouldn't mind a RT2000...

[Flying dutchman]

Elie,

(S) VHS/C tapes are available up to 60 minutes (but very rare). The usual tapes are 30 and 45 minutes.

The Canon Optura (MV 30) has a fantastic image quality. The lens is terrific and slightly wide-angle which is very convenient. Mine does not have DV-in enabled(yet) but I probably won't need it, after all I have a Marvel to output to TV /VCR!

The only disadvantage I've found so far is that I can't operate the fade in/fade out buttons if the LCD is closed (I prefer filming using the viewfinder - just a habit remaining from my SVHS days...)

[stevenscott]

hello,
Thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have a Matrox Marvel G400 and a JVC GR-DVF31 Digital camera that uses the MiniDV tapes and the picture and sound quality is excellent with lots of features. Adding lots of good software to stuff into the computer and this is really a nice setup. The camera was only about $700 new. IMHO



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Steven S. Palmer
(stevenscott.delete@bigfoot.com)
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/
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My Photo Website (someday it will be finished):
http://members.xoom.com/skialps/
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Pentium PIII450
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MS Precision Pro Joystick
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[Aryko]

I am also the proud owner of the original Canon Optura, which I bought some five months ago from WorldWide Direct out of Brooklyn (www.buydig.com). A quick note, it was the most painless purchasing experience ever and I'd highly recommend them. Saved a bundle vs. buying here in Canada. Anyway.

I've had the camera long enough to build up some opinions on it. I agree with Dutchman, the image quality is excellent and I love shooting in progressive scan mode. This is probably the easiest and most effective way to get a "film look" without actually shooting 24 fps. The widescreen mode leaves a bit to be desired as it stretches and gets a bit grainy, but it may be that when played back on a widescreen tv or resized on computer, the grain fits in the right places and it looks sharp again.

It's funny Dutchman mentioned the "slightly wide-angle" property, I hadn't noticed that until last weekend. For closeups it is a noticeable effect and something I'm looking to counteract in stills I'm taking with the camera, notably with the "warp" deformation filter in Paint Shop pro.

DV-in and -out (NTSC version here) works flawlessly with the ADS Pyro card, making for a very cost-effective solution. I've yet to see a dropped frame, a nice switch from my Hi-8 vs. Marvel days.

As for Dutchman's comments about the fade-in / fade-out buttons, I'm not sure if the MV30 is designed differently from the NTSC Optura, but on mine the digital effects are controlled by a button near the lens, easily in reach of my index finger. You push and hold to select your effect, which takes effect when you start or stop the recording. Pointless for me, as I can add all sorts of fades and transitions in Mediastudio pro...

Battery power can be a problem, as it is limited to the BP914 pack - they last around 45 minutes of regular filming (on/off). I usually use the DC Coupler for extended shooting, but I also have the CH-910 which accepts two batteries. The Optura's shot selection switch allows you to choose between photo, movie and lock modes, the latter being useful for quickly shutting off to preserve power.

I find myself shooting almost exclusively on "TV mode", where you can adjust the frame rate / shutter speed and accomodate difficult lighting situations.

Most of all, I just like the SLR camera type look - I think they really took a step back by redesigning the system for the PI model.

If you need any more information, don't hesitate to ask.

- Aryko

[Brian Ellis]

I'm currently visiting Switzerland and have been looking at the camera counters in both malls and specialist shops (not that there are many left!). Strangely enough, the cheapest camera I've found with DV in and out is the Canon MV-30I at CHF 1880 (ca. $ 1100). The cheapest D8 is exactly CHF 10 more. It astonished me that a) the D8s are so expensive and b) that the cheapest one should be a camera with a quite reasonable specification, albeit that it was a special offer, knocked down from CHF 2990.

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Brian (the terrible)

PS I've just restocked up on mini-DV tapes, as I always do when I'm over here. I bought a couple of packets of three x 60 minutes Panasonic for CHF 24.00 ($ 4.70 each) in a supermarket. The daft thing is that the same shop had exactly the same tape in a single pack for CHF 25.40 ($14.95 each). Who can explain the whys and wherefores of commerce?

[This message has been edited by Brian Ellis (edited 16 September 2000).]

[Riddek]

Aryko,
How much did you save (roughly) from buying at www.buydig.com? I've been thinking of purchasing outside of Canada, but I've heard that if your product doesn't have the "CSA" sticker on it, no service centre in Canada will touch it if you ever need service. Is that true?

[hippie91]

well, one issue that i have with buydig.com is that they ream you on shipping. for example, they charge you $20 just to ship a warranty using the cheapest option... it's $40 us if you choose the fastest delivery option.

[Aryko]

Let's see - when I looked around here in Ottawa, the sticker price was still $2500 for the Optura, even with the new Optura PI having already come out. This was back in April. Let's face it, Canada's a secondary market, at least around here, so they have no motivation to compete simply because the average consumer doesn't have access to the net to check around.

Price from buydig.com (Worldwide direct) - $869 US. Even at a sagging Canadian dollar (it was still 1.47 then) the conversion brought that to $1277. Slap on duty at roughtly $100 Canadian, the savings were still over $1000. It was brand new, so hopefully it won't require servicing for a while, especially as I am _very_ careful with the camera. That said, the Optura's proving to be extremely hardy.

I just looked at Henry's (www.henrys.ca) and it looks like they've changed their prices on the Optura, at 1299 CDN. With buydig having raised their price to 991 (interestingly) the amounts are comparable with duty and conversion versus Ontario taxes. I'd stick to a Canadian purchase for the warranty (if it still carries one).

Do _not_ buy from Abe's of Maine - a friend of mine had a terrible experience with them. Shipped half of a camera package and really dragged their heels about fixing it. Luckily they had a great refunds department. Ironic?

- Aryko

[Patrick]

*** IMPORTANT ***

All Canadians should read the information at this link before they order anything from the States.

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/Drwebsite/Ebay/ups.htm

Canadians have been absolutely screwed by UPS, Purolator, Fed Ex and other private couriers over the years. Read this and find out how to protect yourself from paying way too much for "shipping" costs when ordering something from the States.

[Aryko]

Part of this post is true. What Budman isn't mentioning is that packages shipped by standard post can still get stopped at the border and assessed for GST and duty. With a courier, they do it as a matter of course because they can put a surcharge on it.

If you want it tomorrow, then you pay through the nose to get it tomorrow and get it via a courier. As far as those go, I recommend Fedex over UPS - much more flexible shipping times and redirects and generally easier to deal with.

I could tell some UPS stories, oh yeah.

- Aryko

[Patrick]

What Budman isn't mentioning is that packages shipped by standard post can still get stopped at the border and assessed for GST and duty.

No offence Aryko, but GST and duty is not the issue here. It's the absolutely scandalous surcharges that these private carriers tack on that this fellow is kindly bringing to our attention.

[Aryko]

But Patrick, that's what UPS is charging a brokerage fee for. When you ship a package up from the states, you are responsible for paying any duty and GST that applies. When you ship it via the Post customs has the right to hold it until you pay up. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But with a courier - and this is the scandalous thing - they take all of this into advance and charge you anyway.

I agree, it's probably overestimated, and I also agree, I'll ship USPS over courier anytime I get the chance, but this is not an "invisible cost" that the courier is adding on. They assume the responsibility for shipping your package across the border, and that includes paying duty, GST, and any other charges, all wrapped up in their brokerage fee.

When I shipped my Optura from New York, it cost me $103 in duty - which I paid to UPS as the brokerage fee. The duty tariff on electronic components made in the US is 0% (NAFTA) but the Optura is made in Japan.

- Aryko

[Patrick]

Ummm..... are we reading from the same link?

I urge every Canadian who wishes to order something from the States to read the above mentioned link and decide for themselves what the smartest course of action is.