"Blu-ray Disc" vs. "HD DVD": Neither Is Winning

[Jerry Jones]

Darn.

I've decided to delay my Apple TV purchase.

After reading posts from others using it, it seems one really needs 802.11n and not just 802.11g wireless to get enough speed to stream high bitrate video wirelessly from any hard disk in the house.

All I have currently are Macs and PCs with 802.11g... not 80211n.

Too slow for live streaming.

I could still transfer back and forth.

But that seems as if it would only be practical if I had a very large hard disk in the Apple TV -- otherwise -- I would be constantly moving material back and forth to be viewed.

I'm wondering if one can attach a very large external hard disk to the Apple TV.

If not, I think I might wait until they offer an Apple TV with a 500GB hard disk or larger.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

Jerry,

Why don't you just buy an inexpensive Mac and put in a video card with HDMI and hardware acceleration for H.264? Then you'd have a full-featured HTPC.

Of course for about $500 you do build a PC (gasp!) like I did to do get it all done. I'm running a HTPC with my Sony 52XBR4 with excellent results. My wife is using it all the time no problem. And we actually do quite a bit of viewing from the Netflix online content. We just finished season 1 of Heroes and I have to say the quality was pretty darn good. Great series too.

HTPC with combo drive, Comcast HD box, surround sound receiver. Done.

I can play DVDs, HD-DVDs, Blu-Rays, stream online content, and play video files from my hard drive as well as normal HDTV and on demand from the Comcast box. Of course all SD content on the computer upscales beautifully from the PC. Nice and simple, inexpensive, and it plays everything.

[Jerry Jones]

My budget will only allow for $329... the price of the 160GB Apple TV:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&node=home/shop_ipod/family/apple_tv

PLUS, I want the APPLE software.

That's key for me.

So I'll wait for an APPLE TV with a bigger hard disk.

I'd like to see an APPLE TV with a 1 terabyte hard disk.

500GB minimum.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[paulw]

My budget will only allow for $329... the price of the 160GB Apple TV:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&node=home/shop_ipod/family/apple_tv

PLUS, I want the APPLE software.

That's key for me.

So I'll wait for an APPLE TV with a bigger hard disk.

I'd like to see an APPLE TV with a 1 terabyte hard disk.

500GB minimum.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Atually the reason I'd wait is for a Apple TV with a more grunty video process chip..

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/2/prweb684223.htm

The DVD, with us barely 10 years, is on the verge of extinction, thanks to new technologies with vastly greater storage capacities. But as proponents of Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats, the competing pretenders to the throne, prepare to pop the champagne corks to celebrate, they may discover the real party is online.

Apple introduced its Apple TV television product, designed for downloading and playing video content, to the market last year, with mixed reviews. In January the company announced a major software upgrade that provides more functionality and greater ease of use, combined with reduced pricing.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Tjalfe]

Cute, but still does not address the bandwith issue, which prevents this from taking off in the near future. That and ISP's imposing download limits.

[paulw]

With the likes of Apple TV I can see the same thing happening with video as has happened with audio. The dumbing down of the video quality. After a couple of years people will think that Apple TV HD is the best thing around forgeting that it's just over the best DVD quality and these same people will not have bought a HiDef DVD player and compared the PQ. Just like what happens with audio today. MP3 is fine for the itunes generation but for those of us bought up on audio CDs and now DVDs the MP3 is far from fine..

[Jerry Jones]

As I've studied this product, I've thought of a lot of different approaches I could take.

1. Upgrade my Mac mini with an 802.11n USB 2.0 adapter.

2. Figure out some way to add additional hard disk space to the Apple TV.

3. Wait for the 500GB version.

Now, I'm leaning toward buying an Apple TV again.

However, instead of buying the $329 160GB model, I'm now thinking it might be more logical to just buy the least expensive $229 40GB model.

At first, I was concerned about the need to transfer media back and forth.

But then, I did some thinking about that prospect and I think I'm ready to think of the Apple TV as a display device and not as a storage device.

While my 802.11g network isn't nearly as fast as an 802.11n network, I suspect I might not really need the additional speed.

Based on what I've read, the transfers from computer hard disks to the Apple TV -- even using 802.11g -- are surprisingly fast.

With the iTunes software, it's as simple as syncing an iPod.

So maybe I could just view (or listen to) media after waiting a few minutes for the sync to complete.

As long as it's only a few hundred megabytes of material and not gigabytes of material, it should be relatively fast.

So -- yeah -- now I'm thinking I can get away with spending even less money than I originally planned and just get used to the idea of syncing to the Apple TV as needed... just like I already do with my iPod.

Then, when I'm done watching a show or my own home movies, I could just keep them stored permanently on my computer's hard disk while using the iTunes software to free up space on the Apple TV's hard disk as required.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Hulk]

With the likes of Apple TV I can see the same thing happening with video as has happened with audio. The dumbing down of the video quality. After a couple of years people will think that Apple TV HD is the best thing around forgeting that it's just over the best DVD quality and these same people will not have bought a HiDef DVD player and compared the PQ. Just like what happens with audio today. MP3 is fine for the itunes generation but for those of us bought up on audio CDs and now DVDs the MP3 is far from fine..

Paul -

As a person that has always been into hi-end audio what you are saying is absolutely a scary possibility. Dumbed down HD devices like this that are not really HD could give true HD a bad name.

The HTPC I built for less than $500 is dual core, runs at 3.0GHz, 2GB memory, 500GB disk drive, has HDMI output, plays DVDs, and is fully upgradeable. It cost me $250 more to have the capability to play BRs and HD-DVDs.

FULL HD output at 1080p to my 52" Sony XBR4 display.

I couldn't imagine not having this much flexibility AND image quality.



In other news I just got this from Netflix. Looks like everyone is running from HD-DVD.

"You're receiving this email because you have asked to receive high-definition movies in the HD DVD format. As you may have heard, most of the major movie studios have recently decided to release their high-definition movies exclusively in the Blu-ray format. In order to provide the best selection of high-definition titles for our members, we have decided to go exclusively with Blu-ray as well.

While we will continue to make our current selection of HD DVD titles available to you for the next several months, we will not be adding additional HD DVD titles or reordering replacements."

[paulw]

In other news I just got this from Netflix. Looks like everyone is running from HD-DVD.

"You're receiving this email because you have asked to receive high-definition movies in the HD DVD format. As you may have heard, most of the major movie studios have recently decided to release their high-definition movies exclusively in the Blu-ray format. In order to provide the best selection of high-definition titles for our members, we have decided to go exclusively with Blu-ray as well.

While we will continue to make our current selection of HD DVD titles available to you for the next several months, we will not be adding additional HD DVD titles or reordering replacements."

Yep. Looks like the inferior customer unfriendly format will win again..

[Jerry Jones]

Not really.

Because both formats -- "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc" -- have such pitiful market penetration that absolutely *nobody* I know -- not counting one or two individuals on this forum -- has either a "Blu-ray Disc" or "HD DVD" player.

And when you read the statistics carefully, you have to realize that these obsolete high definition optical disc formats haven't begun to replace the ordinary standard definition DVD... and they never will.

Why?

They're -- positively -- as dead as DISCo.

Wireless streaming via home networks is the future!



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Yep. Looks like the inferior customer unfriendly format will win again..

[Hulk]

Paul,

I actually think BR is the superior format from a capacity point of view. As far as disc prices go you are paying for usuage rights, not the physical disc. And of course as manufacturing ramps up... you know the deal.

But the copy protection on BR makes playback and fair use problematic to say the least. On that we can definitely agree.


Jerry,

You are missing out on some good HD content on those HD discs you so despise. I am watching lots of HD from Netflix RIGHT NOW. Not next year or in two years. You see my friend it all comes down to a personal choice. To some people a Honda Civic is all they need. Others require a BMW. Both will get you there.

Same thing with SD vs. HD. You'll see the movie either way it's just that more choices are better right?

Would you want to take away my choice of using HD optical discs right now? Should I be allowed to use PC? How much of people's lives do you want to control?

I'm just kidding of course but I just don't understand your desire to take choice away from people.


On another subject after a month or so in the HD world with a high quality monitor I am seeing that an average bit rate of about 18Mbps seems to be enough for very good quality 1080p playback. At least on a 52" screen.

As for streaming I am really enjoying streaming "Heroes" from Netflix. Unfortunately I'm noticing more slow downs as more people are using this service. A month ago the cache would load up in 5 seconds. Now I'm seeing 1 to 3 minutes! And I've checked my connection speed at these times, it's still around 2.3MB/sec or over 18Mbps!

Sadly it seems the internet is going to need a lot of work before we're ready for mass streaming.

Hey Jerry please tell me the HD movies you've watched streaming?
How about DVDs?

You never seem to answer those questions!!

[Jerry Jones]

My stance is not about "taking away choices" as you put it, Mark.

Feel perfectly free to buy whatever you wish.

I just think the high definition DVD formats are old-fashioned, backward, boring, expensive, and obsolete like Laserdisc, 8 track, Jaz, Orb, Betamax, etc.

I'm into downloads and wireless.

But that's just me.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/rentals.html

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Apple TV video demo:

http://www.apple.com/appletv/guidedtour/index.html?size=small

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Well, Mark, Apple TV's high definition movie downloads have literally been available for a few days... and I haven't yet purchased the new, updated Apple TV... but I might pick one up this week and I'll let you know how much better it is to watch HD using a new, updated Apple TV...

Library Apple TV rentals: $3.99

New releases on Apple TV: $4.99

http://www.apple.com/appletv/rentals.html

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

Hey Jerry please tell me the HD movies you've watched streaming?
How about DVDs? You never seem to answer those questions!!